Johns Hopkins Medicine says this about acupuncture, "Acupuncture points are believed to stimulate the central nervous system. This, in turn, releases chemicals into the muscles, spinal cord, and brain. These biochemical changes may stimulate the body's natural healing abilities and promote physical and emotional well-being."
Join me today as I speak with Ashley Engler, an acupuncturist with 17 years of experience helping patients with a variety of ailments and illnesses. Ashley will share the benefits of acupuncture, what you should look for in an acupuncturists, and much more.
Connect with Ashley at Scott Family Health (Loveland, CO):
https://scottchiro.com/acupuncture/
Suggested Resources:
Your donations power our podcast's mission to support cancer patients with hope, insights, and resources. Every contribution fuels our ability to uplift and empower. Join us in making a lasting impact. Donate now! 🌟
Johns Hopkins Medicine says this about acupuncture, "Acupuncture points are believed to stimulate the central nervous system. This, in turn, releases chemicals into the muscles, spinal cord, and brain. These biochemical changes may stimulate the body's natural healing abilities and promote physical and emotional well-being."
Join me today as I speak with Ashley Engler, an acupuncturist with 17 years of experience helping patients with a variety of ailments and illnesses. Ashley will share the benefits of acupuncture, what you should look for in an acupuncturists, and much more.
Connect with Ashley at Scott Family Health (Loveland, CO):
https://scottchiro.com/acupuncture/
Suggested Resources:
Your donations power our podcast's mission to support cancer patients with hope, insights, and resources. Every contribution fuels our ability to uplift and empower. Join us in making a lasting impact. Donate now! 🌟
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and today's episode is all about the health benefits of acupuncture. My guest today is my friend and my acupuncturist, Ashley Engler. Ashley graduated from Southwest Acupuncture College in 2005 with a Masters of Science in Oriental Medicine. This four year master's program included several specialty internships, like the Oncology Acupuncture Clinic, as well as a pediatric clinic. Ashley has been practicing acupuncture for 17 years. Thirteen\ of which have been with her current employer, Scott Family Health in Loveland, Colorado. She loves using acupuncture to help others improve their quality of life and alleviate a variety of different health concerns. Ashley is married with two boys ages, 15 and 11. She enjoys reading and cooking, running, and practicing yoga in her spare time. Welcome Ashley to the show.
Ashley Engler:Ah, thank you so much. Ivelisse it's such a pleasure and an honor to be here with you today to chat a little bit about acupuncture.
Ivelisse Page:Thank you for coming on your day off to come
Ashley Engler:No problem.
Ivelisse Page:share with us. Our listeners are always interested in discovering what our guest favorite health tip is. Can you share yours with us?
Ashley Engler:There really are so many, but I guess I would have to say to reduce or lower your sugar intake. I know that's hard for a lot of people and can ruffle some feathers with some, but look, the truth of the matter is that excessive sugar intake leads to a host of health problems in the body like increasing your blood pressure, accelerating aging, increased risk of diabetes, obesity, and heart disease. So the way I look at it is that your body is a machine and you're faced with tons of choices each day of what you decide to put into your body. So making those good choices, is gonna significantly impact your overall health and well-being.
Ivelisse Page:Yeah, that is such a great tip. And especially for those who are in a cancering process, like they say that the cancer cells intake sugar, like a hundred times that of a natural, regular cell. And that's why even, especially for cancer patients, that sugar is a big no because it really absorbs it and gives it fuel to grow. That is such a great tip for all of us. And, I found that when I started to remove the sugars from my diet, that fruit actually tasted sweeter.
Ashley Engler:Yes. I had the exact same thing for sure. Yes.
Ivelisse Page:So acupuncture, I know it's pretty common today in the United States, but for those who are unfamiliar, can you share what is acupuncture?
Ashley Engler:Sure. Acupuncture is a alternative healthcare system that was originated in China over 2000 years ago. There's over 350 different acupuncture points all over the body from your head to your toes including on the scalp. Even throughout the ear, there's over a hundred different acupuncture points on your ear. And these different acupuncture points when stimulated with small, tiny individually sterilized needles promote healing in the body. Acupuncture's believe to stimulate the central nervous system. And there's been studies that have shown that acupuncture stimulates areas of the brain to release a lot of neurochemicals through the body. You get a rush of endorphins, which will block pain as well as serotonin, which is the body's natural feel, good drug, right? Serotonin promotes a feeling of well-being in the body. A lot of people are afraid of needles and they're reluctant to try acupuncture. They say, no, I don't wanna do that. Why would I subject myself to being stuck with needles? But it actually is a very relaxing experience.
Ivelisse Page:I can agree with that. I'm not afraid of needles, but when you see them, it can be intimidating. They are so thin that it's like a little prick. I think people are thinking of IVs or injections that have a much thicker gauge of needle.
Ashley Engler:Absolutely! The acupuncture needles are about 1/100 size of a hypodermic needle. And most of the time, you really shouldn't feel much at all when the needles are inserted. I usually tell my patients the most you'll feel is like a mosquito bite or a rubber band slaps your skin. That feeling should resolve within about 10 seconds. If it doesn't speak up and tell your acupuncturist,"Hey, this doesn't feel right". Chances are we can adjust things and make it feel better for you.
Ivelisse Page:And I know that you've done that for me before. Sometimes it goes in and it's just a little spicier than the other ones. And you just just gently just even move it a little, teeny bit. And then it's oh it's not spicy anymore.
Ashley Engler:Sometimes those reactions can indicate an imbalance in your body when the needle goes in. Sometimes if it's going into a joint or a muscle a little bit of pain right there temporarily can indicate a lot of inflammation. And if you sit with that for five seconds, then the needle will start to reduce some of that inflammation in that area.
Ivelisse Page:That's just incredible to me. What have you found to be the top benefits of acupuncture for people to come to see you.
Ashley Engler:Oh, there's so many. Specifically for cancer patients or just in general, would you say?
Ivelisse Page:For both, let's say both for both.
Ashley Engler:I'd say the number one thing we probably treat is pain, musculoskeletal pain. Acupuncture has been shown and proven to relax and release muscles, increase blood flow through the body and just cut down on inflammation in general. So whether it's a acute injury or it's a longstanding low back issue, acupuncture can be highly beneficial to helping those problems. Some neuropathies, which I know is an unfortunate side effect with chemotherapy, I see that a lot in my practice. Neuropathy, whether in the hands or the feet, acupuncture can stimulate the nerves in the hands and feet, increased blood flow and circulation through there. And with repeated acupuncture practices I have had several patients be able to increase feeling in their hands and feet, and that's been really nice.
Ivelisse Page:That's incredible because sometimes people feel like this is the way it's gonna be. And it's so encouraging to hear that, to know that, okay, there are some really easy options that can be done in order to help increase that ability to be able to feel and remove the neuropathy from your hands and feet. That's great.
Ashley Engler:Absolutely and I'd also say another thing that acupuncture is really good at treating is overall anxiety, stress in the body. Most people will tell you they feel pretty relaxed after an acupuncture treatment and with repeated treatments those effects will accumulate through your body. A lot of times we'll treat anxiety, depression, insomnia. There's specific acupuncture treatments and points that can help with that.
Ivelisse Page:I've definitely experienced that. I came to see you when I was going through perimenopause and having hormonal imbalances. I was trying everything in order to not have hot flashes and be able to sleep at night. At first I came to you every week and then it was every two weeks. And now it's just like a monthly tune up per say. I don't have the hot flashes anymore, the sleepless nights. It can become like this snowball effect. So it's really important for people to find ways, especially natural ways to be able to get restorative sleep again, and be able to manage symptoms, whatever you may be feeling.
Ashley Engler:Absolutely. I would piggyback off your statement there, encourage people to stick with the acupuncture. I generally tell my patients, you wanna give it three or four times before you give up on deciding whether it's helping you or not. That's pretty standard with acupuncture. Some people will tell me, oh, I tried it one time, but it really didn't do much for me. Your body will have that cumulative effect and you need to keep going to see the benefits that it can create in your body.
Ivelisse Page:That's great advice. And what about for kids? Do you see many kids? Are they hesitant?
Ashley Engler:I would say that kids are hesitant in general. We don't tend to do much needling on kids under the age of seven. However we can treat children. We use a little Japanese stainless steel toolkit that we apply acupressure to the acupuncture points and the meridians on the body. I've treated patients, babies as young as six months old in my practice for digestive issues, sleep, even anxiety. And actually children respond really well to the treatments. And then around the age of seven, depending on the child cuz everyone's different on how adventurous they are, two needles sometimes will really help a child. I've treated children for bedwetting, digestive issues, or we see a lot of middle school and high school children in our practice for acute sports injuries.
Ivelisse Page:Wow. Is there anyone that shouldn't do acupuncture? Some therapies that if you have a pacemaker, you should be careful. Or is there anyone that should not do acupuncture or should be very careful in who they go see?
Ashley Engler:That's a great question. I would say no, we can still treat you with a pacemaker. There's certain modalities we won't do if you do have a pacemaker. Acupuncture is totally safe to do if you're pregnant. There's certain acupuncture points that we will not do if you're pregnant or you have a specific ailment. Some people have found, just less is more. So it's really about talking to your acupuncturist and finding the right point prescription for you. Some people benefit from not laying on the table as long as others. So it's really a unique point prescription and recipe for each person.
Ivelisse Page:I love that individualized approach. So on average, once you stick all the needles in, how long is someone typically laying there before you come back in to remove the needles? What's that process like? Explain the process of
Ashley Engler:Sure.
Ivelisse Page:getting acupuncture.
Ashley Engler:Absolutely. So once discuss your health concerns and what you want to work on, then we'll get you on the table. Sometimes you're laying on your back, might do points on the front side. Sometimes you're laying on your stomach and we'll do points on the back side. And then as we're putting the needles in I'm consistently checking in to make sure everything feels okay. Once the needles are in we'll give you a check,"hey, you feel good"? Nothing's annoying bothering you? Temperature's good in the room? You're good to relax for a little bit? And then I step out and generally leave the patient laying relaxing anywhere from 12 to 30 minutes. During that time I can come back and check on you. We also have little pagers that we can leave you with if you're feeling especially restless or anxious that day. Maybe your stomach is upset that day and you need a pager to make you feel better laying. Generally, anywhere from 12 to 30 minutes and then we'll come back and take the needles out.
Ivelisse Page:I love that time because it's really silence of everything and you can just really have that quiet time to relax, to pray, to rest in this quiet where in this world, we typically don't get a lot of that.
Ashley Engler:Absolutely. A lot of people will say that they enjoy coming to the acupuncture because it forces them to shut the outside world off. Turn your phone off, the notifications, that'll all be waiting for you when you get out. Just take this little bit of time to focus on yourself and your health and well-being.
Ivelisse Page:Yes, so important. Going back to what you shared about the cancer patients, I found that the NIH reviewed 11 clinical trials. They shared that acupuncture may actually help those symptoms associated with cancer treatment, not just for the neuropathy. Have you found that as well?
Ashley Engler:Definitely. I'd say in addition to the neuropathy, probably the other things we'll treat cancer-related is chemotherapy-induced nausea, vomiting. There's some really great acupuncture points that help specifically on the inside of the arm where you'll see people wear those motion sickness bands. There's a little bead on that motion sickness band that gives acupressure to that acupuncture point, that's one of the best on the body to reduce nausea. We'll treat nausea, vomiting, the neuropathy just overall anxiety and stress. Maybe some postoperative pain or pain in the body. Another big one that we'll treat is dry mouth. People wouldn't think to try acupuncture for dry mouth symptoms. Interestingly enough, there's a point on the index finger that studies have shown that when you needle that point on the index finger, it lights up areas in the brain involved in saliva production. So that's pretty neat.
Ivelisse Page:Wow, that's incredible. What about like sweaty palms? Does it help with that too?
Ashley Engler:Yeah, it can definitely help with with excessive sweating, like you had mentioned with the hot flashes, night sweating, excessive sweating. There's specific acupuncture points that we can do for that as well. And there's a lot of studies being done right now to test those things.
Ivelisse Page:That's awesome. What should someone look for in an acupuncturist? Like how does one find a well qualified practitioner?
Ashley Engler:That's a great question as well. I would look for somebody that is NCCAO M certified, the National Certification Commission on Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine. So anyone that's NCCAOM certified, they have pretty rigorous standards. You can always schedule a consultation or a phone interview with an acupuncturist before making an appointment with them. There's a lot of different personality types and acupuncture styles out there. So you wanna find someone that has experience in treating what you wanna be treated for.
Ivelisse Page:Yes, that's great advice. The certification, is that typically like a three or four year program?
Ashley Engler:It is. The school that I went to, Southwest Acupuncture College, it's a four year master's program. I think that's changed a little bit since I graduated 17 years ago. I think you can do the program in three now, but most of the time it is a master's program. A lot of people are surprised at that. When patients ask me about my schooling, they think, oh, maybe it was just, a summer program or something like that, but it is a pretty rigorous program.
Ivelisse Page:I can see why because of those, what did you say, 350 points on the body. And it's not just even one point even for my hormone health. I think you probably put in 10 or 12. There's so many aspects which I love about this type of therapy because they all relate to each other. They are correlating and working together. So you have to know how they each function in itself and also together.
Ashley Engler:Absolutely. And there's also additional training that some people go through with the Chinese herbal aspect of the program. So that can add on to your training. So if that's something you're interested in, getting with somebody that has the knowledge of Chinese herbs, then that's an option for you too.
Ivelisse Page:Did you do herbal medicine or just the acupuncture portion?
Ashley Engler:I did, I did do the herbal medicine aspect as well.
Ivelisse Page:That's awesome. You're a superstar.
Ashley Engler:Aw, thanks.
Ivelisse Page:You are. You're amazing. I'd been to several and I'm just so grateful for the way that you helped to heal me. And I'm really grateful for you.
Ashley Engler:Aw, likewise. Thank you so much.
Ivelisse Page:What is the typical cost? Does insurance cover it for most people? I know it's like a therapy that it's around at integrative cancer hospitals that typically just do massage and acupuncture. So is it a therapy that's covered by insurance?
Ashley Engler:It is being covered by insurance more and more. We do have patients that come in, they have a$15-$20 copay, which is pretty awesome. I know some of the Kaiser plans have an additional rider that you can add onto your policy for acupuncture. Some people do have the acupuncture benefit and they didn't have any idea that they had it on their insurance coverage. So when in doubt give a call and see. Otherwise it varies. I'd say the average cash rate for acupuncture is anywhere from$80 to$120, depending. If cost is a real issue for you, you can find some more community style clinics that do a sliding scale for people.
Ivelisse Page:And community clinics, in what way? They do it as a group or?
Ashley Engler:They can, it depends on the establishment. But some community clinics you'll get a little bit less individualized attention, but you're still getting the acupuncture. It might be that there's several people being treated at once in different chairs in one room. So it's not the type of acupuncture where you're gonna get the full body treatment. Sometimes they're just doing acupuncture points on the arms and the lower legs.
Ivelisse Page:Okay. And for those who've never been, the traditional acupuncture appointment that I go to and that you offer, it's like a massage table. So if you've ever had a massage, that's the table that you lie on. So it's very comfortable and it's private, so that's that's really nice too.
Ashley Engler:We try to keep it relaxing with the nice music and the dim lighting and the whole experience.
Ivelisse Page:And the heated table I loved.
Ashley Engler:The heated table. Yeah.
Ivelisse Page:You've also done cupping on my back along with acupuncture treatments. Can you explain to people what cupping is?
Ashley Engler:Cupping, it's a form of soft tissue work that we'll do. A lot of times we do it for pain issues to increase blood flow and circulation through those areas once the needles are removed. And cupping's gained a lot of popularity lately. A lot of times on social media, you'll see these crazy pictures. It looks like he got attacked by an octopus or something. At my office we don't tend to do the really aggressive style cupping, but in general, we'll put a glass cup down on your back. We have a little wand that sucks the air out of the top, makes a vacuum and just gently move it over the muscles in order to increase blood flow through there. Most people find it very relaxing too.
Ivelisse Page:Yeah, it really is. And so the other form of cupping, they leave it in there say as long as you do like an acupuncture treatment or how is it different?
Ashley Engler:Sometimes they'll leave the cups on your back for 10-15 minutes. Some places will offer just cupping therapy if that's all you're interested in. They'll put 10 cups up and down on your shoulders and back and leave them on for a while. So that's an option.
Ivelisse Page:That's great. Is there anything else that you would like to add that you think others would find helpful to listen to or hear that I didn't ask today?
Ashley Engler:I feel like everybody could benefit from acupuncture. I see a lot of people that are very reluctant to try it because of the needles or they're worried that it's gonna increase pain. And then once they start doing it, I'll see people that'll say"I wish I would've started this a long time ago I feel so good afterwards". Acupuncture will reduce inflammation overall in the body, which is always a good thing, and to help with your stress levels. Even if you're coming in for a low back issue with repeated acupuncture some people say, overall, I'm sleeping better. My energy levels are better. I maybe feel less irritable, stressed out with my spouse or my kids. Who doesn't need that? The benefits of acupuncture, there's so many of them. So I just hope that maybe somebody listening today will decide to give it a try, cuz it can do a world of good.
Ivelisse Page:I agree a hundred percent. You never know until you try. So I encourage those of you who are on the fence, be brave, go in, make an appointment and try it. You will not regret it. And it will really help to transform your health if you're having issues or wanna improve your health, if you're already healthy. So there's always a benefit to so many things that are available that acupuncture can do. And so thank you Ashley so much for joining us today. It's been an honor to be with you and and look forward to seeing you again soon.
Ashley Engler:Likewise, thank you so much for inviting me on today. I really appreciate spending the time with you.
Ivelisse Page:If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support our podcast, please subscribe and share it with others. Be sure to visit believebig.org to access the show notes and discover our bonus content. Thanks again, and keep Believing Big!