This is Part 2 of our interview with Dr. Kelly Turner, PhD.
Radical Remission - when someone heals against all odds without the help of conventional medicine or when conventional medicine has failed.
Is that really possible?
You bet!
Join me as I take TWO episodes to talk with Dr. Kelly Turner, PhD about her research with radical remission survivors around the globe. Dr. Turner has spent years studying survivors of typically fatal diseases and how they were able to overcome the odds and heal themselves. Her work is nothing short of fascinating and packed full of Radical Hope!
Connect with Dr. Kelly Turner at Radical Remission:
http://www.radicalremission.com
Suggested Resource Links:
Your donations power our podcast's mission to support cancer patients with hope, insights, and resources. Every contribution fuels our ability to uplift and empower. Join us in making a lasting impact. Donate now! 🌟
This is Part 2 of our interview with Dr. Kelly Turner, PhD.
Radical Remission - when someone heals against all odds without the help of conventional medicine or when conventional medicine has failed.
Is that really possible?
You bet!
Join me as I take TWO episodes to talk with Dr. Kelly Turner, PhD about her research with radical remission survivors around the globe. Dr. Turner has spent years studying survivors of typically fatal diseases and how they were able to overcome the odds and heal themselves. Her work is nothing short of fascinating and packed full of Radical Hope!
Connect with Dr. Kelly Turner at Radical Remission:
http://www.radicalremission.com
Suggested Resource Links:
Your donations power our podcast's mission to support cancer patients with hope, insights, and resources. Every contribution fuels our ability to uplift and empower. Join us in making a lasting impact. Donate now! 🌟
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders and cancer thrivers from around the globe.
Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and today we are continuing the conversation on surviving cancer against all odds with Dr. Kelly Turner. If you missed last week's episode, make sure you go back and listen as Dr. Turner and I spoke about the first five of the 10 Key Factors she researched with Radical Remission patients. Those included radically changing your diet; taking control of your health; following your intuition; using herbs and supplements; and releasing suppressed emotions. Today, she is back to discuss the remaining five factors. Dr. Kelly Turner is a New York Times bestselling author of Radical Remission and Radical Hope. And over the last 15 years, she has conducted research in 10 different countries and analyzed over 1500 cases of radical remission. She is a frequent guest on the Dr. Oz Show and holds a BA from Harvard University and a PhD from the University of California- Berkeley. Kelly also created and directed a docu-series that explores each of the 10 key healing factors from her research. Now let's continue the conversation.
Ivelisse Page:Welcome back Dr. Turner to the show. Thank you so much for being with us and helping us to continue to learn these factors that have really helped so many patients overcome great odds.
Dr. Kelly Turner:Oh, I'm so happy to be here and telling you all about my research of radical remission survivors.
Ivelisse Page:Well, so today we are gonna focus on the last five. And again, these are not in any order in particular. We're just sharing the concepts that you've shared in your book. Not one is more important than the other. These are just 10 factors that you have found that were in all the patients that you had researched. Is that correct?
Dr. Kelly Turner:Absolutely. Yep. We do not yet know the order of importance. And so I always actually try to talk and teach about these 10 factors in a different order specifically, to remind people that there's no order of hierarchy here. At least not yet. We won't know that until we run multiple clinical trials.
Ivelisse Page:That's fantastic. Okay. So the number six was increased positive emotions. So what does the research show happens to our bodies when we feel positive emotions?
Dr. Kelly Turner:The research is pretty stunning, honestly. If you have cancer patients and they're all getting chemo and you send one group to just sit with their worried thoughts and stare out the window, and then you send another group into a room and play standup comedy for them. After four hours, they will have significantly higher numbers of natural killer cells and white blood cells. So your body's ability, your immune system's strength will significantly increase simply by watching comedy videos.
Ivelisse Page:Wow.
Dr. Kelly Turner:And yeah, and the research that shows that 20 seconds of hugging significantly increases the amount of oxytocin in your bloodstream. And we know that oxytocin kills cancer cells in Petri dishes. This idea of finding joy, finding laughter, finding a way to feel love, to feel connected and peaceful and grateful. The science is clear. You're literally giving gasoline to your immune system. You're lighting it on fire in the best possible way. And I think that's really hopeful and inspiring, but there is another side to this that I always like to point out whenever I speak about this, which is you don't have to feel happy all the time. Very important for cancer patients to hear this. The radical remission survivors I study, many of them spent months in the darkest depression of their entire lives. As they look back on their healing journey, they say, oh, that was the darkest moment of my life, when I had stage four cancer and treatment wasn't going well. And I wasn't sure if I was going to make it. So I'm not here to say you have to be happy all the time because that's not what radical remission survivors do. They feel their emotions fully, right? Their feelings of fear. And then they find a way to release them. And when they can distract themselves for even five minutes a day with some comedy or cuddling their cat or hugging their child, or going out with a friend for a cup of coffee. Five minutes a day is enough to reset your system and get you outta that fight or flight response. That is gonna be incredibly healing for your immune system.
Ivelisse Page:That's incredible.
Dr. Kelly Turner:Do you relate to that at all? Ivelisse in your journey of the pressure to try to like not feel stressed or to feel happy and grateful all the time. Did you feel that?
Ivelisse Page:I did. There are points where I was feeling the stress because I felt like I was missing out on my kids' activities. I had my surgery in December for my liver, and that was the same month that was my daughter's birthday and all the Christmas plays. And I was really feeling sorry for myself. And, interestingly enough I turned on the TV and there's this preacher that was on. It was amazing because I turned it on the first word she said, is, are you feeling sorry for yourself? And I'm like, oh my goodness, yes. And she's you need to put up your shield of faith and remember that you need to focus on what you can do and not on what you can't do. And I looked up and I said,"got it." And it reminded me that day to say, okay, yes, all these things are happening, but what can I do? I can pray. I can have joy. I can hug them when they get home from school, I can read stories. And so finding those things that brought those positive emotions into my life were so important. And we watched a bunch of I Love Lucy videos. So the humor aspect always made me feel better. I watched those episodes and funny movies with my kids. And I tried to push away from the negativity from the news and other things that brought stress. So yeah, that was a factor for me as well.
Dr. Kelly Turner:I love that pivot cuz everyone finds a way into positive emotions in their own unique way. So there's no one right way to do it. But for you to say, okay, I'm feeling depressed, I'm feeling down, I'm feeling sad instead of focusing on all the things I can't do right now, cuz of this surgery. What can I do? That's such a great pivot cuz anyone, no matter how sick they are, even if they're in a hospital bed, they can look out the window, they can smile at the nurse, they can take a deep breath, they can make a list of things in their life that they're grateful to have experienced. So that's a beautiful tool that you just gave to your listeners of what they can do. I think that's beautiful.
Ivelisse Page:Which leads in to number seven, which is embracing social support. You share that the support of others is perhaps never more vital than when we are sick. And I completely agree. What do the studies show that you've researched? Can you share one of your favorites in the stories that will be featured about how embracing social support is so important?
Dr. Kelly Turner:One of the studies that's brought up in the docu series, that's coming out October 3rd, in this episode of social support it's a study that my colleague Sahmini Jain PhD, she's a associate professor at U C S D. She describes it. And it's this brand new research they did on happiness networks. It's groundbreaking and it's late breaking. So you may not have even heard of it, but they did this study that showed that if you are feeling happy, then you are affecting people in your network and you are increasing their levels of happiness, even if they live 20 to 50 miles away. And you have to read the study to see how they measured this and how they deciphered this. But it's the idea that your social network is affecting you even from miles away. And why that's important is because we also have incredible studies saying that loneliness kills, right? Cancer patients who self-report as feeling lonely, die significantly sooner. And sometimes, it's staggering, they die 60% sooner than similar cohort with similar diagnoses. So loneliness cannot be underestimated as something that contributes to disease and to mortality, right? Like loneliness kills, just plain and simple. And so the opposite of loneliness is this feeling of social support. It's the feeling, the perception that you are loved by others. Now this doesn't mean that you need a hundred friends. It could mean you have two friends. It could mean you have three cats that you love and you feel that they love you. In fact, plenty of incredible research about pet support, showing that the love that we feel from pets is just as impactful as the love we feel from humans. And in fact, sometimes it's considered more helpful to your health because it's not complicated. It's just unconditional. They're always happy to see you. You come home, the dog is happy to see you. You can't always say that about, your close family members. The power of social support in terms of it's effect on the chemicals in your bloodstream again, right? Like it all comes back to chemistry in the end. If you feel love and support your body will be flooded with oxytocin and oxytocin is this hormone that scientists are just beginning to understand the power of this healing hormone. It has the nickname of the hugging hormone, but more and more people in the field of integrative oncology are calling it the healing hormone. Because you don't just get it from hugs and it doesn't just feel nice. It actually helps your body to heal as I said, the studies where it reduces the spread and the growth of breast and ovarian cancers in Petri dishes. So it's an incredibly potent anti-cancer hormone to have running through your bloodstream. And the more you can have it, the better it is. In the docu-series we feature two people, so this is episode 10 Social Support, two people who really needed the support of others in order to heal. One is a single woman divorced in her sixties, didn't have health insurance because this was back in the day where there wasn't Obamacare. So when she was 62, she couldn't afford private health insurance. So she just didn't have it. And she needed the financial support of her church community in order to get the treatments that she needed to heal, which in her case were alternative treatments because that was her personal choice. But without that flooding in of both loving support, they took her to appointments, they fixed up her roof when it had a leak, they were doing friendly things, but they also did fundraisers for her that allowed her to get this treatment. And there's this beautiful part in the docu-series where she explains in a very tearful way how this stranger that she didn't know from her church community just wrote a check for a thousand dollars and said, give it to Catherine. And so her friend brought over and said, look, you just got a thousand dollars from this man in our church. And she was like, oh my God, this money's gonna save my life. And for her to feel that feeling of emotion, like even as I share this story, I'm feeling flooded with love and awe of the human spirit. So just sharing this story is helping to heal my body right now. And certainly receiving that check, that kindness from a stranger in that moment just flooded Catherine's body with so much oxytocin. Yes, it paid for the treatment that was helpful as well, but in that moment of feeling that love from a stranger, her body was healing and that's powerful. She had stage three liver cancer and she ended up after the year and a half of alternative treatment, she finally agreed to go get the surgery. They went in and the tumor was dead. It was just like hanging off by a thread. They just snipped it off. She went home that day. They said, you didn't need surgery cuz the cancer was all dead and gone.
Ivelisse Page:I see that a lot and that's one of the reasons why we started the Believe Mugs at Believe Big. And I remember going in there and I had incredible social support from my community and my church and my neighbors and family and friends who just rallied and, linked arms with us and helped pay for those integrative treatments that were uncovered so that our family didn't go under because I had lost my pay. I was an independent contractor at the time. Anyways I was shocked to see that not everyone has that. There are so many people in that waiting room who are alone, who are by themselves. And I remember looking at Jimmy and we need to do something. These people are just feeling so hopeless and just the unsureness of what's gonna happen in their appointment. And so I can tell you that when we started delivering them at our appointments, and even today they're shipped all over the country, people write to us and say, you don't understand how much this small act of kindness helped me. And I can't believe that someone who didn't even know me took the time to paint this and make this for me is so powerful. We get those stories all the time. How the simple act of kindness of just painting a mug or making a meal for someone who's sick or helping them with rides or any way that we can step in as a community to let people know that they're not alone is so powerful, but to know the science behind it as well, that's incredible.
Dr. Kelly Turner:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I love that story of the mugs and how you're sending loving kindness to all these strangers who need love and support. It's a beautiful outreach that you're doing, so thank you for what you're doing.
Ivelisse Page:So number eight, deepening your spiritual connection. I heard this quote years ago that says,"though, not everyone will be cured. Everyone can heal." That was my father's story. He was so tired of being good enough by everyone's standards. And for him, his cancer diagnosis made him try and discover what life meaning really was. And he went on this search. He actually told God that if He could get him through his cancer operation, that he would find out who He was, and if He was really real to him. And in that year of searching, he really discovered for us as a Christian family who Jesus was. And he said to us that he finally found freedom and forgiveness. And even though the burden of cancer was heavy, he found relief. And as a little girl, I was 13 at the time, I remember seeing his physical body withering away because of the cancer, but I was seeing his spirit come to life. It was really amazing. And it's one of the things that I love most about what we do at Believe Big, is that we do help people of all faiths and backgrounds. But as a Christian organization, one of our values is faith. And I love the definition of that, which is faith is the confidence in what we hope for and the assurance about what we don't see. And I know if it wasn't for my faith and belief in Christ that I wouldn't be here today. And in your book you share about other practices that are important, like deep breathing and, you shared earlier about walking outside, can you talk about those as well?
Dr. Kelly Turner:Absolutely. And thanks for sharing a bit about your spiritual journey. That's beautiful to hear those details. Radical remission survivors come from all different walks of life, including all different religions. And some of them are even agnostic or secular. The common thread that they have is that they all have some sort of daily practice that calms their mind and gets them into their heart. So you can call that religious. You can label that prayer. You can label that faith. You can label that meditation. You can label that gardening. It doesn't matter what you label it. It also doesn't matter how you do it, according to my research, it doesn't matter how you do it because I'm seeing radical remission survivors do it in lots of different ways and get to the same result, which is a physical physiological state that they are entering. And that physiological state, again, it's preceded by no thoughts. So it's a clear, quiet mind. It's usually accompanied by deep breathing. So whether you're gardening or you're running, or you're praying your breathing is slow. Sometimes people even stop breathing. They feel like I don't need to breathe for a moment. I can hold my breath for a little while. That's part of the yoga prana practices of breath retention. We're getting into specifics here, but the idea is you calm your thoughts, your breath slows down. Your heart rate slows down. And what happens according to radical remission survivors is when their physiology changes in that way, then their emotions change as well. And this is where it gets pretty specific. They don't start laughing, they don't get weepy. They talk about peace flooding through them. They usually talk about it flooding in through the top of their head. Sometimes they feel it coming into their heart, but they literally describe peace, the feeling of peace entering their body. And for some people they describe it with light. They say that it feels like light is flooding into their body. Some people describe it more in terms of energy. They say it feels like a tingling sort of energy is filling their body, but it really is something they describe as a physical sensation, that's also meshed with the emotion of peace, if that makes any sense.
Ivelisse Page:Yes.
Dr. Kelly Turner:So that's why I had to make it a separate factor because it's not the same thing as laughing with the comedy show, that's increasing positive emotions. And it's not the same thing as receiving social support from a friend, which brings up that oxytocin. But it's because you're reading this email from them that touches your heart, right? No. Spiritual connection practice is a separate thing. It is distinct and it's something that they're doing usually by themselves. Or if they're in like a congregation, they're still having an inner quiet experience. And it's very powerful for them. And as a scientist, I'm fascinated by the studies that have been done on people who are meditating and getting into that physiological state because their brain changes entirely. You put the Dai Lama into an FMRI machine and parts of his brain are lighting up that do not light up in your average person. So these are parts of your brain associated with compassion with making more neural connections across your whole brain, right? So meditation is being seen as something that's healthy for the health of your brain. It's something that allows you to be more compassionate emotionally. And then from an immune function, for example, beginning meditators, people who've never meditated, you teach'em how to meditate. You say, do this 30 minutes a day. Guess what? After six weeks they've turned off their oncogene. They turn off their cancer genes in six weeks of doing something that's free and all it takes is 30 minutes a day. So incredibly powerful practice however you do it. Whether it's 20 minutes of prayer or 20 minutes of meditation, or again, like I said, 20 minutes of running or gardening, take that 20 minutes a day to be silent with your thoughts and to focus on your breath and ideally focus on bringing in this energy of peace into your body. And if you do that, which is what radical remission survivors do you will really be strengthening your immune function.
Ivelisse Page:I completely agree and, those are some great tips and we can actually add in links at the end of the podcast on breathing techniques. If you have any that that you've found that are helpful, a resource, we can add that on there and even the meditating one. So number nine, having strong reasons for living, you share about the mind leading the body and not the other way around, can you talk about that?
Dr. Kelly Turner:Absolutely. Radical remission survivors have strong reasons for living. They just do. They're not wishy-washy about whether or not they wanna stay on this planet any longer. They do. They are very determined. And what I found interesting in my research is that, I came from counseling cancer patients so I was very familiar with this patient group, but the difference that I saw in radical remission survivors is that they weren't running away from death the way that many of my counseling patients had been. They were very afraid of death. They were just doing everything they could to avoid this thing called death. And radical remission survivors weren't talking about death so much. They were talking about the things they wanted to do when they were alive. And they talked about how focusing on their goals and their reasons for sticking around, allowed them to take the focus out of that fearful topic of death, which many of them were very afraid of. Let's be clear, radical remission survivors, many of them are terrified of death, but they didn't focus on it. Sometimes they did in their therapy sessions, especially when they were working on releasing suppressed emotions. They chose their moments to face that fear. But for the most part, their days were spent focusing on what am I working towards? What do I wanna do that's gonna bring me joy today? What am I working towards that's gonna bring me joy next year? They made plans. They had six month goals. They had one month goal, one year goals and they had 10 year goals. And I do think that doing that changes your physiology. I think it moves you out of fight or flight. One of the subjects in our docu-series a man named Joe he's in the releasing suppressed emotions episode because he had a lot of anger to release. All radical remission survivors do all 10 things. And so when we cover what were his reasons for living, he wanted to travel. He loved to travel. He got lit up by seeing new places, new people, new cultures, new languages. And so he had a goal of, I wanna visit every country on this earth. And he's still working towards that goal. He's got 30 more to go, but he's visited, all the rest and it's incredible. And he says, when I get back from a trip and I make my photo album, I can't wait to start planning the next one. And that energy, that's something to look forward to. For some people it's, I wanna make it to my grandchildren all get through college. That's another person in our docu-series, Ken. He said to himself I can't go anywhere, I gotta help pay for these kids' college. I'm gonna get my grandkids through college. So it's an interesting similarity that they all have.
Ivelisse Page:That was me as well. I had four kids and my oldest was 13 and my youngest was five at the time. And so I actually put pictures of trips that were meaningful or moments that were meaningful in our lives and framed them. They brought me joy, I will see my kids graduate and get married. It's amazing that was a factor, but having strong reasons for living, yes. There's so much of life. We need to keep focusing on what's ahead and outside of a cancer diagnosis, I think.
Dr. Kelly Turner:Yeah. I think it's good advice for everyone to focus on. We all have limited time here, right? No one's getting out of here alive. So knowing that our time is limited, what do you wanna do? Because we never know when that moment of our transition is gonna come and you don't wanna be stuck with a cancer diagnosis, realizing that you just spent the last 20 years really living life in a way that wasn't fun for you or that wasn't at all meaningful. That's something that I've really learned from radical remission survivors is don't wait to go for your dreams, do them now, because it's a lot harder to go for your dreams when you're also having to do cancer treatment. It puts a damper on things. It's a lot easier to go for your dreams when you're not having to run off to a chemo appointment. So might as well focus on them now.
Ivelisse Page:Yes. So let's talk about the last factor which was included in Radical Hope. The Radical Remission book did not include it Why did you add it? And why is this factor important?
Dr. Kelly Turner:Great questions. We really debated whether to call my second book, Radical Hope or The Tenth Factor. And we ended up calling it Radical Hope. I've been doing this research for 15 years now and when my book came out and it surprised me more than anyone, what a response it got. But it did get this global response, which meant we were getting flooded with new cases. Which for a researcher is like a dream come true. Right? Anyone can go to radicalremission.com right now and share their story with me and my team in less than 10 minutes. And because we've made that process easy for people, the cases keep coming in. Radical Remission was published in 2014. So all the cases that were coming in were including exercise or movement. I decided to go back and reanalyze the data that had gone into Radical Remission, all the cases. And I called these people up. And I said, back in our initial interview, back in 2008, 2009, you didn't mention exercise as being important to your healing in your opinion. And they would say, yep, absolutely not. Because I couldn't go back to running half marathons until at least a year. And I was like, oh wait a minute. We're not talking about half marathons. Did you move at all? And they're like, not really, all I could do was walk around the block. I was so sick. And I said, okay, wait, stop. But did you walk around the block? And they said, yeah, every day. And on the days when I could walk around twice, I did it twice. And I said, oh, okay. We're just having a semantics issue here. They did exercise. They're just not calling it exercise because it's not a 60 minute spin class where there's sweating buckets. But when you have stage four cancer and you've been sent home on hospice care by your doctor, you can't go to a spin class. The most you can do is maybe walk around the block or maybe just walk to your kitchen and then back to bed, but finding a way to push your body, to do some movement every day, no matter how sick you are turned out to be a common thread among all of the people that I've studied, which is why we've revised the research and published the second book to say, you know what, everybody here was moving. Everybody was, and it's incredibly important for your health. The research exercise is incredible. What's that famous quote. They said, if you could bottle up the benefits of exercise into a pill. It would sell like hot cakes, right? Because 30 minutes of exercise, you are basically turning all of your healing functions on. You are detoxifying your body. You're mitigating the effects of stress and you're adding years to your life. So if you could bottle that or put that in a pill form, we'd be millionaires, we'd be billionaires. But you can't, you have to do the work. You have to do the sweating and the movement and raising the heart rate. You have to do that.
Ivelisse Page:I love that you shared the differences, cuz even post-surgery, one of the things that they're trying to do is to get you out of the bed, to have you stand up, to have you walk even around the floor. That was me after my surgeries and how that was the last thing I wanted to do but we need to get you up from this bed. And every day Jimmy would walk with me on a lap. And he was very humorous and I remember another lady was doing the same thing and she was much older, probably double my age and she was moving much faster than I am. And he would say, you can let her beat you. You can let her beat you. And I'm like, yeah, she can beat me today. It can be a simple movement as getting out of the bed. Like you said, going to the kitchen or walking to get the mail at your mailbox, but movement is so important for your body. So I'm so glad that you added that because the definition of that movement changes as you're healing. So as our time is coming to a close, is there anything else that you would like to add that I did not ask you about today or that you'd like to share?
Dr. Kelly Turner:One thing I would like to say is that and I said this earlier, but I'll say it again. I'm not a medical doctor and these are not a guarantee that you're going to have a radical remission. As a researcher and if you read my books you'll hear me say this loud and clearly in the introduction, these 10 factors are now hypotheses for us to test. Before this research, we had these thousand cases of spontaneous remission, radical remission in the medical journals, and the doctors didn't have any hypotheses attached to these articles. The hypothesis was said unknown. I don't know why this person got well. Now we have 10 guesses as to why these people are getting well. And the next step, therefore is clinical trial research, which I'm working on with some colleagues at Harvard. We actually are in the midst of wrapping up a pilot study and the results of that will hopefully be published soon. I'm not part of the analysis obviously because of a conflict of interest there. So we'll see what they find. But the pilot study leading to clinical trials to say, all right, we know that these 10 factors are common among this rare group of people, these radical remission survivors. Are these 10 factors applicable to the general public? In research terms we say, are these findings generalizable? If anyone does these 10 factors, will they have a radical remission? We know that's not the case because we know some people do these 10 things and they don't have a radical remission, unfortunately. What does that mean? Were they not doing them deeply enough? Did they not find the right supplements for them? Were they not releasing all of the trauma from their past? Or do they just not have the right genetics that allows these 10 factors to really work for their body? These are the questions we're asking as researchers, which is why do these 10 factors work for this group of people? We'll get there. It'll take 20, 30 years. In the meantime though, the reason I write these books for the general public is to say, we know for a fact from other clinical trials that all of these 10 factors have been shown to significantly strengthen the immune system. So if you'd like to strengthen your immune system, as much as you can go for it. Do these 10 things. They're safe. You can do them at home. The only one that you need to do under the guidance of a health professional herbs and supplements. But I don't think any oncologist out there is gonna have an issue with you wanting to eat more vegetables and reduce stress and increase your social support. Any oncologist is gonna say those are good things. They're good things for your immune system. And they are, we have the studies to back them up. And those studies are listed in both of my books. So yes, you can do these 10 things. You should do them. We should all do them for the sake of our immune system. Will doing them cure your cancer? I don't know. I can't promise that. What I can promise is that you will significantly boost your immune system. And in my opinion, that's always a good idea.
Ivelisse Page:Thank you so much for all the research and the work that you're doing to make this available to us in the community, in the country, even in the world now, because it really just does give us hope and encouragement to know that there are practical things and simple things that we can incorporate into what we do into our protocols to make us our best selves. And it's really important that we continue to grow, that we continue to learn and continue to do things that are gonna benefit our health. Thank you so much for joining us today again, and I'm gonna put the link to your website for anyone to click on. If they'd like to watch the docu-series. Is that where they would go to register to watch it?
Dr. Kelly Turner:Sure they can find it there at radicalmission.com. It's going to be played on Hay House's website, that's hayhouse.com so you can also find it there. And it will come out October 3rd and it should be always available on hayhouse.com from here on out, which is great because unfortunately cancer patients are always being diagnosed. If they can get some hope inspiration from the docu-series and from reading the true stories in my books, then I'll feel like I've made the impact I wanna make.
Ivelisse Page:You definitely are. So thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr. Kelly Turner:Thank you so much for having me Ivelisse I've really enjoyed it.
Ivelisse Page:If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support our podcast, please subscribe and share it with others. Be sure to visit believebig.org to access the show notes and discover our bonus content. Thanks again, and keep Believing Big!