Water seems like a simple topic, right? Not so fast! There is quite a lot to know about the water we drink and the water we use in our daily lives.
Water is a key component of life. Every living organism must have water to survive. Today we jump into the deep end of water with Jess Higgins Kelley, a Master Nutrition Therapist and Oncology Nutrition Consultant. Jess truly takes a deep dive into water and the importance of hydration for our overall health.
Jess has something for everyone today! You won't want to miss all the nuggets of information about water including:
Connect with Jess Kelley at the Oncology Nutrition Institute:
https://www.oncologynutritioninstitute.com/
Suggested Resource Links:
Note from Jess:
Carbonated vs Non-Carbonated Water and Hydration Status.
There are currently no studies showing both intracellular and extracellular hydration status when comparing carbonated vs non carbonated water. Intracellular hydration is more important to mitochondrial function than external. Because of this, currently it is widely accepted that both are equally hydrating. However, since we practice ancestral nutrition, we know that humans didn’t add carbonation = carbonic acid a weak acid, to water until about 100 years ago. It also REALLY depends on the sparkling water/carbonated water source. In general, plain mineral waters in glass are excellent. Those with any artificial or natural flavors, sugars, etc should be avoided. All that said, many people do not have access to drinking water AT ALL so something is better than nothing!!!!
Your donations power our podcast's mission to support cancer patients with hope, insights, and resources. Every contribution fuels our ability to uplift and empower. Join us in making a lasting impact. Donate now! 🌟
Water seems like a simple topic, right? Not so fast! There is quite a lot to know about the water we drink and the water we use in our daily lives.
Water is a key component of life. Every living organism must have water to survive. Today we jump into the deep end of water with Jess Higgins Kelley, a Master Nutrition Therapist and Oncology Nutrition Consultant. Jess truly takes a deep dive into water and the importance of hydration for our overall health.
Jess has something for everyone today! You won't want to miss all the nuggets of information about water including:
Connect with Jess Kelley at the Oncology Nutrition Institute:
https://www.oncologynutritioninstitute.com/
Suggested Resource Links:
Note from Jess:
Carbonated vs Non-Carbonated Water and Hydration Status.
There are currently no studies showing both intracellular and extracellular hydration status when comparing carbonated vs non carbonated water. Intracellular hydration is more important to mitochondrial function than external. Because of this, currently it is widely accepted that both are equally hydrating. However, since we practice ancestral nutrition, we know that humans didn’t add carbonation = carbonic acid a weak acid, to water until about 100 years ago. It also REALLY depends on the sparkling water/carbonated water source. In general, plain mineral waters in glass are excellent. Those with any artificial or natural flavors, sugars, etc should be avoided. All that said, many people do not have access to drinking water AT ALL so something is better than nothing!!!!
Your donations power our podcast's mission to support cancer patients with hope, insights, and resources. Every contribution fuels our ability to uplift and empower. Join us in making a lasting impact. Donate now! 🌟
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big Podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and it is an honor to be with you today. We are so excited to welcome back to our podcast Jess Kelley of the Oncology Nutrition Institute. Jess is joining us today to talk about water. She is a Master Nutrition Therapist, Oncology Nutrition Consultant, a teacher, a writer, and Nutrition Education Program Developer. Jess has been an Oncology Nutrition Consultant for over a decade and has extensive experience working with cancer and chronic illness clients from around the globe. She is also the coauthor of two books, including the bestselling Metabolic Approach to Cancer book. The Oncology Nutrition Institute she founded provides online certification programs for professionals and education for the public in therapeutic metabolic nutrition. Jess has completed certifications in environmental science, endocrinology, and blood chemistry analysis, methylation, and clinical neutrogenomics, and much more. Welcome back to the show, Jess.
Jess Higgins Kelley:It's great to be back, Ivelisse, it's nice to see you. What a pleasure.
Ivelisse Page:Well, as you know, our listeners are always interested in discovering what our guest's favorite health tip is. The last time you joined us, you shared about hydration and how that was your favorite health tip, which led to today's podcast. But is that still your favorite tip or do you have another one you can share?
Jess Higgins Kelley:You know, I tend to be chock full of health tips and, whether people listen or not. That's a different, different question. But, you know, this week I was thinking about it and one of my biggest bits of nutrition advice I tell people is that if you're not hungry, don't eat. And as we're, you know, we're visiting after Thanksgiving holiday last week, and I just really can't help but notice how much focus there is, especially around holiday times where it's just sitting around eating and drinking. And while I love visiting with family and all that, I just feel like it becomes one meal after the next, after the next, and where people are finding themselves eating when they may not be hungry, and I think getting back in touch with our natural hunger sensation, which definitely segues into dehydration, is really important. And so you know, if you're not hungry, don't eat. We force food, we force snacks, we force meals, we think we should be eating all day long. So yeah, kind of basic, but yeah.
Ivelisse Page:Does that apply to kids too? I mean, I'm one of those where I grew up in a home where my parents said, until you finish that plate, you're going to sit there and I would sit there for hours. I'm joking, but, you know, is, is that for kids too, or what are your thoughts on that?
Jess Higgins Kelley:You know, that, that situation causes more psychological damage that I've had to deal with, with people over the years. It's, it is, no, if kids aren't hungry, they should not eat. You can tell, you know, as a parent, if your kid is melting down, they're hungry or tired. So if you know that your kid is hungry, you know, they're little and they don't know how to regulate it, of course, but if forcing food, when you're not hungry is totally goes against tuning into our own biology of what our bodies need and what we feel. So, you know, kids, they're growing. They certainly need, oh, different caloric amounts and frequencies than adults. But, you know, I see it with kids and say they can't go up five minutes without a snack. So, this, this chronic snacking is, that is too much. So if your child's had enough food at breakfast, they don't need a snack 20 minutes later. That could be because they're bored or they've just come off a screen and their dopamine levels have dropped and it makes them hungry. So there's a lot of different biochemical influences that can trigger, you know, oh, I should eat because they're trying to get dopamine back up.
Ivelisse Page:That's great. And, you know, you know, maybe we'll have you back and really talk in depth about fasting and its benefits of it. We're learning so much about that in the last few years and the importance of that for health, but we'll leave that for another day. But today I wanted to make sure we have so many questions that came in about hydration and water when you were last on that we said, okay, we're going to do a separate podcast just on hydration. So let's start with that. How crucial is proper hydration for overall health?
Jess Higgins Kelley:You know, over the years, in the 15 years that I've been writing about and researching and practicing and teaching about nutrition, I always come back to what water is the master nutrient. We need it in far more amounts, at a far greater frequency than any of the other macronutrients, carbohydrates, fats, proteins, micronutrients, you know, vitamins and minerals. Water is required for just about every single biochemical reaction in the human body, and so water is, it's the most often overlooked, but it is the most important nutrient on the table when it comes to nutrition therapy. And estimates are that about 75 percent of Americans are dehydrated. So, it's critically important. And physicians typically aren't asking their patients about hydration status. So, hopefully, you know, with podcasts like this, we get that out a little bit more to have that part of the intake process.
Ivelisse Page:Yeah, so, so let's go like real basic. So for people that are listening to this, what are some of the signs that people should be aware of that may indicate that they are dehydrated?
Jess Higgins Kelley:Yeah. Dehydration, by the way, happens really easily, so even a 2 percent loss can result in impairment. And so what can happen as far as short term, fatigue is one of the most common. Fatigue is one. Hunger, the sensation for thirst and hunger are the same. We also see mood changes like irritability, depression, and also delirium. So especially with our aging population where we're seeing a lot of these acute, dementia, delirium, those are, can be symptoms of dehydration, and so it's very, very important to tune in to anytime someone's exhibiting any type of, you know, cognitive impairment. Headaches are huge. Headaches are one of the biggest, you know, gosh, or constipation. Those are going to be some of the first signs that we see, and that can happen in as quick as, you know, 24 hours. We can only survive without water for three days. So, dehydration happens very quickly. It happens from just sleeping at night. As we respirate, we lose, you know, a pound of water, almost a night, you know.
Ivelisse Page:Wow.
Jess Higgins Kelley:Yeah, so it doesn't really take much for this to happen and happen quickly. So when we see headaches, when we see constipation, when we see delirium, confusion, agitation, and just overall fatigue. Those are, that's what you're going to see first. When it comes to sort of long term dehydration, long term sort of chronic dehydration, it's been linked to several different metabolic conditions because our mitochondria actually uses the hydrogen from water. So remember that the chemical composition of water is H2O, so two hydrogen and one oxygen. So, in order for our mitochondria to produce energy or ATP, it actually uses hydrogen. So in states of dehydration, you know, the hydrogen supply is more limited, but there's also not enough water to sort of transport potentially mitochondrial damaging toxins away from the cell. So, hydration and mitochondrial function are critically linked. There was a great report that just came out, co authored by Dr. Mercola and Dr. Zach Bush about mitochondria and dehydration, and so these long term metabolic disorders, cancer, Alzheimer's, diabetes, we should be looking at hydration status. So it is a big, big deal.
Ivelisse Page:Yes, I would love that link so that we could add that in the show notes. And is there any such thing as too much water? Some of my boys are doing the 75 day hard. This is Jimmy's second time around doing it. And it was really good for, you know, being focused and really setting goals but they require one of the five things that they have to do is that they have to drink 120 ounces of water a day. And I know that it's typical, you're supposed to drink half of your body weight in water a day. So is there something as too much water? Because that would be way too much for me.
Jess Higgins Kelley:Yes, so definitely we see hypohydration. Um, that can happen in athletes. So what happens is, is that when you sweat during these intense exercises, you're also losing electrolytes. So when you just replenish water without electrolytes, especially sodium, potassium, magnesium, all these electrolytes that get excreted through sweat, then people can have too much hydration. Not only is it important to replenish water, but to make sure that in these athletic, you know, high output 75 mile races that they're really getting on board some good electrolytes as well. We like the LMNT brand, I don't get any kickbacks from them, but it's nice because it's not sugary, tasting, but I think electrolytes are really important. And just imagine that, you know, the average estimate is that you're going to burn around 32 ounces of water during intense exercise. Every person's different, but they're going to be burning through a lot of water. So that, that's actually a fairly conservative estimate for that much of a exertion. So, yeah, I wouldn't be worried about that at all.
Ivelisse Page:Okay. And I know, you know, you just mentioned the LMNT. Yeah. We don't get any kickbacks from them either, but I was looking, especially living here in Colorado because of the dryness, I was trying to even find at Whole Foods a good electrolyte that wasn't filled with so much sugar, and I was shocked to read all the labels of so many electrolytes that people are putting in that is more than a can of soda, so it was nice to find something like the LMNT that does not. Are there any others that you have found that don't have the sugar, because it's really important for everyone to minimize the amount of sugar in their diet, so you're trying to do something positive and you don't want on the second hand to do something negative for yourself.
Jess Higgins Kelley:Right. Yeah, it is tricky, and you're right, a lot of the commercial ones are kind of junk, so the other one that I like is Trace Minerals. They have drops that are tasteless, you know, just 10, 20 drops in a glass of water, which I recommend people do on a day-to-day basis. And the other reason I like this particular brand is because it contains lithium. So the more we've been looking into water and looking into some of these, you know, mitochondrial, metabolic diseases, especially in the mental health area. So lithium is an essential trace element and it's found, or supposed to be found, in most water sources. However, it's not, and there have been several large epidemiological studies that have found a correlation between the amount of lithium in drinking water supply and suicide in the general population. Now there's actually a a large push to start adding lithium into public water supply in the same way that they added fluoride, years ago to prevent dental cavities. So lithium is incredibly important and it's really missing from a lot of water, whether people get it from tap water or city water, city water or well water or bottled water or canned water. So that's definitely my first choice is going to be the Trace Minerals drops because of the lithium content because that's missing out of a lot of most commercial ones don't have the lithium, but that's critically important.
Ivelisse Page:Wow. I didn't know that. That's amazing. Now, I, I have never had issues getting an IV put in, but the last two times the technician that comes to my house to give me my nutritional IVs, he, my veins were failing and I guess it was just too many blood draws that I had before my surgery, and they are just kind of saying, okay, enough, but the person who, does them told me that if I drink several ounces of water with some sea salt or electrolytes the night before, that it would help them to be able to put in IVs easier. I know that that's something super important for patients as they're getting blood draws or going in for procedures and things. Is that something that you have found with the clients you work with that is helpful?
Jess Higgins Kelley:Absolutely. So when you think about dehydration, because it helps to maintain your vascular integrity, right? So humans are between, you know, adults are anywhere between 65 and 75 percent water. So even a little bit of dehydration is going to make those veins a little more concave, right? So, it is very important, especially for the folks that are getting lots of IVs done, to make sure that they're really well hydrated, going into those jaws to prevent multiple pokes.
Ivelisse Page:Yeah, that was a tip that I had never heard. And, and sure enough, I did that the next time and I had no issues. So, uh, wanted to ask you about that on our podcast today.
Jess Higgins Kelley:Well the same goes too, if you're getting any other type of IV solution coming into your body, chemotherapy, for example, I always say that the solution to pollution's dilution, you're gonna get that moving around your body and filtered out much more efficiently and effectively if you go into those in a hydrated state. So really important for people who are in treatment to think about every time they're going in, to make sure that they are optimally hydrated because it's so easy for our, They're nauseous, they don't wanna drink water, maybe. So I have people just make a big thing of ginger tea ahead of time and just add some of that into your water. You know, it's just any way that you can get it in. It's gonna be really helpful But yeah in addition to getting IVs, but any type of intravenous treatment, it will be helpful.
Ivelisse Page:Okay, thank you. And I remember you telling us last time that there was a website that we can check the quality of the water in our area. What, what is that website for people to check to determine what filter is best for their area?
Jess Higgins Kelley:Yeah, so the Environmental Working Group, they put out this incredibly vast database where you can plug in your zip code and it will give you a readout of all of the components found in your public supply of drinking water. And it is fascinating how many things are in there that are above recommended amounts. But then it also really helps for people to figure out what kind of filter system they should get. You know what I mean? So for example, I'm on a well. So, but in my area, it's very high in iron. And so I have to have a specific iron filter for that. But yeah, these public water systems are really quite, can be really quite toxic. So it's worth people plugging it in, go to the Environmental Working Group water site and just seeing what's going on in their individual area, especially if they live in an agricultural area, because a lot of the fertilizer, pesticides, those type of things are going to, you know, infiltrate into the groundwater system. And so, it's really, I mean, everyone should check, but I just think it's really important to take a peek there.
Ivelisse Page:I have the Aquasana whole home water filter, you know, cause it's not only the water that we're drinking, but it's what we're showering with, what we're, watering our plants, our gardens with and so many aspects, that affects our health. And, at the Believe Big office, we have the Berkey, because we're not going to install a system in a rental place, but, but what can you tell us about reverse osmosis systems? I've heard, you know, many people talk about that.
Jess Higgins Kelley:Those are great. What a good baseline system is to do a reverse osmosis. It really does get a lot of the heavy metals and a lot of these other things. So that's, that's typically what we recommend if you're going to be looking into a filtration system is going to be like a whole house reverse osmosis. And then, you know, bringing on board some of your mineral drops to make sure that your re mineral, mineral. Mineralize it that's today's tongue twister. The water after you filter it out. But, yeah, it is, in general the reverse osmosis system is wonderful. And as you mentioned, it's not just what you're drinking, but the other benefit to water is using it externally. So hydrotherapy, so if you're taking a shower, and this is, people can do this for free at home. So you're standing in your shower and you're alternating between hot and cold, and you're activating your immune system when you're doing that. You know, research has shown that your skin absorbs a lot of water and obviously things that are applied to it. So, especially, if you're taking a therapeutic bath, which we recommend, Epsom salt baths, chamomile baths, all those different things, making sure that the water that you are on the outside because it will transdermally absorb. So making sure that you have a whole house system is really important.
Ivelisse Page:Yeah, how long do you recommend the cold and then the hot switching when you're in the shower?
Jess Higgins Kelley:As long as you can take it, I don't know, 30 seconds. It, once you start, starting out is hard, but the more you practice, you can increase duration. So, if people start out cold, cold, cold, and they're like, do it for five seconds, and they go back to warm, and then you stay warm for, you know, 20 seconds, and then cold, cold, cold. It's, wonderful. You know, do that a few times. It really makes a big difference. People who are having problems sleeping, and this goes back to these old night cures, these water cures that originated out of Germany hundreds of years ago, cold water applied below the knee before bed can really assist with lowering blood pressure, getting people to de stress, helping to reduce hot flashes before bed. So, it's really not, you know, just cold water therapy below the knee before bed can have massive therapeutic benefits.
Ivelisse Page:Wow. I didn't know that. I had thought you had to be like under like from your neck down in order to gain the benefits.
Jess Higgins Kelley:No, no, There's a lot to be said, so think about that cold kind of drawing out the bottom of you. So, you don't have to be fully immersed. In fact, there's a lot of therapeutic spas throughout Germany and other places that are specific to body parts. So below the knee, or just the chest, or head.
Ivelisse Page:Fantastic. Well, that's good for me because Jimmy does the cold plunges all the time and loves them, but I'm like, the cold is just something that I have to really work on getting into. But I do do that once I leave the sauna. I kind of go in and take a colder shower, but I like the below the knee, I can handle that. So that's a good tip for me too. So, what about alkaline water systems that increase the pH? I've seen those around, you know, a lot of health bloggers talking about that, or the ionized hydrogen water systems.
Jess Higgins Kelley:There are so many different types of water.
Ivelisse Page:Yes. That's why I wanted to ask you.
Jess Higgins Kelley:I know it's been amazing, you know, deuterium depleted water, structured water, hydrogen water, I mean, there are so many different things and I think, it becomes an economic conversation for most people and I feel like, you know, we're, so much of this health is unattainable to lower income folks because they're like, Oh, really? A$500 water system? Give me a break. It's a little much. Now, this whole concept around alkalinity is, tumors create their own micro environment. So whatever water you drink is not going to change the microenvironment, the pH of that tumor. You have different pHs throughout your whole body, so the pH in your stomach is going to be really acidic in order to break down protein. It's going to be a very different acidity in your kidneys and your urethra. You're going to have different pH and you're designed to have different pH throughout your whole body. And so thinking that a pH of a water is going to kind of create a big impact, not great. So what I don't like about alkaline water is that we're removing a lot of those essential minerals and minerals are really they're required, they're essential to the body, whereas our pH is going to fluctuate and it should metabolically, but what we need to have is those minerals. So, alkaline water, no, I don't, we need water kind of in its purest form, which will have all of those essential and trace minerals. So I think really what we're focusing on the most, of course, adding more hydrogen. Great, because as I talked about our mitochondria use hydrogen in order to produce ATP, which is important, and dehydration can contribute to mitochondrial sluggishness. But as a whole, I think that if people are getting a pretty good filter system, we're more concerned about the toxins that are found in water. It's also found that three in five people are getting their water from plastic water bottles or canned water bottles. So there's this huge seltzer water trend because we hear clinically as people are like, I don't like the taste of water, it's boring. I've been dying for that one, but it's true. So people are getting these. You know, zero calorie, whatever, cans of water that have either artificial or natural flavors. And I think there's a tendency in nutrition to make things a little too complicated. So if we can just get back to not drinking out of plastic, because it's got BPA and other endocrine disrupting chemicals. Not drinking out of cans, because cans are going to also have, leach different types of chemicals, but also some of these, quote unquote, natural flavors. That could be anything. It's not tightly regulated and artificial flavors and some of these other artificial sweeteners and things like that. So I think it's more, if you're getting a good water out of the tap and you're running it through a nice filter system and then you do some testing on it to make sure there's no residual type of, you know. There's a lot of public water supplies that will offer you a home test kit for 35 bucks. So just knowing what's in your own water system, I think, is really helpful. In general, I don't recommend really high end or expensive filtration systems or water additions. I think if people really want to explore deuterium, depleted water or, hydrogen additions, they certainly can, but it's not frontline where we go with water.
Ivelisse Page:Yes, you just mentioned something that just kind of struck me because it's one of my favorite things and it's sparkling water. I just love mineral water. And so is mineral water not part of the daily water intake that we should be drinking each day? Even if it's in a glass, like the glass Pellegrino or there's the one that I get at Whole Foods, it's in a glass bottle. It starts with a G. I can't remember the name right now. I'm not talking about like the LaCroix's or the Waterloo's and things like that that you're talking that are in a can. So what are your thoughts on the different sparkling waters that everyone so loves?
Jess Higgins Kelley:Well, when we carbonate water, we're adding a carbon molecule, or carbon molecules, so that's going to change the chemical structure of water. It is not as hydrating as straight up water. So it's nice to have a balance of flat water and water with some carbonation. If you're just strictly doing carbonation, you might find, you know, some people get like mild headaches more frequently than they should even though they're drinking enough water. We have to just kind of keep an eye out for what's going on with that carbon molecule addition to the bubbly waters. So, there's, you know, for the most part, a sparkling mineral water that has nothing added aside from just sparkling mineral water and a glass. Fantastic! I drink those all the time and there are a lot of great brands of canned, you know, sparkling waters that don't have natural or artificial flavors. They're out there too, but it is worth reading the label on your waters, you know, and thinking about what it comes from. And I definitely recommend that people do have a balance, especially first thing in the morning to have flat water with some minerals in it because we're typically most dehydrated when we wake up in the morning because we've been respirating all night. So it's a really nice time to have a little warm water with perhaps a little lemon juice or a little addition of a therapeutic teas, a great time to add that into your flat water. If you don't like the taste of water, that's a great place. You know, everyone's like, drink your five cups of green tea a day and people are like, not happening. So you make a big container of green tea, keep it in the fridge, and you add a little green tea into your water in the morning to give it a taste. I love jasmine green tea. It's just a really lovely taste. And so trying to mix up. If you love mineral sparkling water, I think it's important to have flat water as well.
Ivelisse Page:Okay, well that's really good confirmation there. I know that our time is already quickly coming to an end. I can't believe how fast it has gone, but, I, I wanted to ask you, given your expertise in individualized nutrition plans, that you teach those who go through your program, how do you tailor hydration recommendations for different needs, such as during cancer treatment versus recovery versus long term health maintenance?
Jess Higgins Kelley:Sure, it really obviously depends on the person and it depends on what they're going through. There's some really inexpensive at home urine strips that you can get and some cups that you can get out. I keep them in my bathroom all the time. Anyone of whom comes over, I'm like, you want to pee in a cup for me? So, basically, you could just do a little dipstick and it tests specific gravity, which is a hydration marker. So people can get a sense of if they're really dehydrated or not. If people don't want to do that at home, as a general guideline, we try to get people to do, you know, for most adults, it's about 80 ounces of water a day. So trying to make sure that that's happening. So, you know, people walk through the door and they have this complex list of supplements. They have all these questions and you can spend 35 minutes as we just did just talking about water. The water that makes their coffee, the water that makes their tea, the water that makes their, you know, water is the master nutrient. So making sure that people are really hydrated is going to be super important. Anything that's going to dehydrate these folks, especially, you know, if they're having side effects from treatments where they may have diarrhea or vomiting or, you know, a lot of people end up with some Dysphasia where they're having trouble swallowing and they're getting dehydrated. Like I said, dehydration can happen rapidly within a day or two. So we're keeping a very close eye on those people. And if we can get them to do these little at-home hydration tests, that's really helpful, to get a look. And then even, you know, if we can get people to get IV fluid replacement with some of these electrolytes, it's really helpful too. That's why they do it in the hospital. So yeah, we encourage our practitioners to take a lot of time with their clients, with their patients, to talk to them deeply about their water. How much, what source, you know, all that. It's really critically important.
Ivelisse Page:Wow. Yeah, that's great. And can you send us the link to the hydration little checks? I think I'm going to buy some just a curiosity.
Jess Higgins Kelley:Yeah, oh yeah! And it tests pH, and it tests ketones, and it does some other things, I think. It's like$25 bucks on Amazon, so I'll send you those links in these little pee cups that I get at home, and they're nice to have. It's a real, it's a conversation starter around the holidays. Ha.
Ivelisse Page:Hey, now the holidays are coming. People will love that. Well, before we wrap up today's episode, I just wanted to send out a special message to everyone who's listening today. And, kindly invite each of you to partner with us at Believe Big as we draw near to the end of the year. Everyone's donation of any amount can make a significant difference in providing financial access to effective treatments and resources for patients in need. And if you would love to link arms with us today and you enjoyed this podcast and you would like to help support it, you can do so by texting the word BELIEVE BIG to 5 3 5 5 5. That's BELIEVE BIG to 5 3 5 5 5. Or you could do it online@believebig.org/donate. We would just greatly appreciate your support. And Jess, thanks so much for joining with us again today. We'll look forward to talking to you about fasting or another one of your amazing, knowledgeable topics that you have and, really greatly appreciate your time.
Jess Higgins Kelley:Thank you, Ivelisse, and thanks for all the great work you guys do at Believe Big.
Ivelisse Page:If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support our podcast, please subscribe and share it with others. Be sure to visit believebig.org to access the show notes and discover our bonus content. Thanks again and keep Believing Big!