Believe Big Podcast

68-Raj Jana - The Science of Precision Emotional Healing

• Ivelisse Page & Raj Jana • Season 2 • Episode 68

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The mind and the body work together and when they are in sync we tend to be in a healthy state.  But what happens when we are plagued by chronic stress and past traumas?  

A few short years ago, Raj Jana found himself in such a situation, needing to put his whole body back in sync, but there was a problem.  Our health care system wasn't set up to help people do that effectively.

Fast forward to today and Raj now is the co-founder and CEO of Liber8, a human transformation company specializing in Precision Emotional Healing (PEH).   Liber8's goal is to empower people to take control of their mental and emotional well-being through PEH and put their mind and body back in sync.

Today's discussion will touch on :

  • Addressing the health of our nervous system
  • Identifying root causes of stress responses
  • Daily practices to rewire our stress responses
  • The importance of long-term change for our emotional well being

There is so much packed into this episode, you won't want to miss it!

Connect with Liber8:
https://liber8.health/

Suggested Resource Links:


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Ivelisse Page:

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big Podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and it's an honor to be with you today. Today, we have an extraordinary guest, Raj Jana. Raj is a former reservoir engineer, 40 and under 40 entrepreneur, and a media host. His first company, Javapresse, a lifestyle brand in the coffee space, experienced, get this, over an 800 percent growth in the first few years and winning the Inc. 5000 award. Raj's work has been endorsed by Damon John of the Shark Tank. I love the Shark Tank, by the way, and featured in Forbes, BuzzFeed, Huffington Post, Entrepreneur Magazine, and various other outlets. Seeking fulfillment Raj actually sold a major part of his company, JavaPresse in 2019 to focus on his mental health and relationships. Frustrated with the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of existing mental health resources, Raj and his partners created Liber8, a human transformation company that helps people use precision emotional analytics to improve mental health outcomes. Liber8's emotional lab reports help everyone from cancer patients to people struggling with anxiety to gain a clear understanding of the psychological factors contributing to their stress while empowering them with tools and community driven support to create measurable change. Raj currently splits his time between the US and Costa Rica and is an avid adventurer at heart. And he also owns his own podcast, Stay Grounded, exploring topics like healing and personal development. Wow. Welcome Raj to the show.

Raj Jana:

Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here with you.

Ivelisse Page:

Well, I am so excited to talk to you today because I've actually done my Liber8 mapping with your group and it was amazing. But before we get into your program, I would love for you to share with our listeners what your favorite health tip is.

Raj Jana:

My favorite health tip is, I know this sounds kind of woo, but it's fine. Let's just go there.

Ivelisse Page:

It's alright, it's yours.

Raj Jana:

My my, favorite health tip is feeling your feelings.

Ivelisse Page:

Okay.

Raj Jana:

You know, most of us, we like to think of our bodies as like these catchers and vessels. And if we go through our lives, we get hit with stressor, after stressor, after stressor, whether it's a life stress, whether it's something we watch on the news. Whether it's something a loved one said to us, like there's all these stressors in our lives. And if we don't actually take the time to practice great emotional hygiene, which is feeling our feelings and allowing whatever's coming through to flow through, it just builds. It builds, and builds, and stores, and stores, and it starts to store in ways that then start creating stress, and inflammation, and toxins in the body, the same way that an environmental toxin might hurt you, shame is a toxin, anger is a toxin, these are all toxins, and so as they come through, I think the greatest health tip I can give, that I've used myself and recommend to everyone in our communities and my family, everybody, is just give it a good cry. If you're angry, scream it out. If you're frustrated, let it go because fighting it is only going to create more problems down the line.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, that's not woo woo. I think that's really, that's a great tip. I had another guest share with me one time and a great analogy of exactly what you're saying is that when an emotion comes, think about a wave from the ocean. You see it coming and you see it and it comes up and then you just had to release it kind of like the wave goes back into the ocean and it's not ignoring it. You're feeling it and then you're releasing it back. And that way you're not carrying it like you're saying and it causing more injury and more harm.

Raj Jana:

Yeah, and I think for me, you know, I always never liked to feel my feelings. I was kind of taught to not. And I think my relationship to my feelings was if I feel this feeling, I'm going to be stuck in it. I'm gonna be stuck in this forever. And then I'm going to have all these thoughts and then all these feelings. And the practice for me has been, can I just allow the feeling to exist without needing to make it anything more than it is? I just have a feeling, just let it go, feel it, whatever it is, create the space for it, hold space for me, and allow that spaciousness, and then when it's gone, it's like after every hurricane, there's weeks of sunshine, it's very similar with our feelings, and I've been learning myself, this is sharing for everyone else, but also a reminder for me, just how important it is to just give the space to be graceful and kind when we have big feelings come up.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. Could you tell us more about your journey from being an entrepreneur in the coffee industry with JavaPresse to focusing on mental health and relationships with Liber8? What inspired that transition?

Raj Jana:

Yeah, I'd sold a good chunk of my last company and then I was kind of going on a path of looking at my relationships. And I was in a nine year relationship at the time and I wasn't proposing and I wasn't going deeper in the relationship. I didn't have the tools and I didn't have, I didn't know how to really navigate what was happening. And as I started going to therapy and as I started opening up myself, I started realizing just one, I wasn't in the right relationship. I didn't know that at the time though. And I was fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting for it. But eventually when I mustered the courage to break up, um, it opened up all of my childhood traumas and wounding, and guilt and shame and rejection. And you named the flavor of like feeling, I was feeling, I was feeling it all. And I had no tools. That was my first big, real breakup as an adult. And as I left that, I started going down a path of looking for different tools to just feel better. I was going to a hypnotherapist at the time I was going into flying south of the border to look at different plant medicines. And I was trying different tools just to feel better. And nothing seemed to stick. And I just kept going to therapy session after therapy session, and the therapist just told me to go back and reflect, and then I'd come back, I'd reflect, and it was just like this, I was playing ping pong with myself in a lot of ways. And, and then on that path as well, I met a dear friend of mine, Tristan Roney, who ended up passing away from stage four cancer. And we were in like a therapy group together and I just heard his challenges with the same problem I was facing where he, you know, he was going to his doctors, his doctors didn't have time to really focus on the emotional side because they were just in there. He was a time clock, get in, get out. And it's not the doctor's fault. They just didn't, that's not what the doctor's designed for, right? Like they're designed to, to do a specific job. And then it was in the height of COVID he didn't have, and he couldn't get a therapist. It took him six months. He was on a wait list. And then when he finally did get his therapist, it took him like eight sessions to start actually looking at the root because of all the catch up that they had to do. So there was just like a lack of. It's like, we have labs and data for everything. Why don't we have it for mental health? And then, Tristan took it on himself to go out of pocket and start going to breathwork studios and doing yoga and trying to look for different answers. And he was just spending so much money because he didn't have a data driven way to navigate that whole world. And then he passed and that's when, you know, I just felt like this giant. It's like everything in my life, like I was having the same problems. I saw Tristan had these problems. And then as I started looking around, there's just so many people falling through the cracks, especially during COVID at the time, this is 2021. And, uh, and that's really then started the seed of, okay, like this, like we need to create something, a tool for people who are maybe stuck in the system. Like they're not getting fully met with the system in the way that they need to be met. Like, how can we empower them to take their mental and emotional well being into their own hands and navigate this very confusing world of all the different tools and all the different practices and all the different ways that we can heal. How what's best for me? And what's the path that's right for me? And that's when Liber8 was born and that's when our emotional lab reports came to be in and we're here.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, so for those who aren't familiar with precision medicine, I shared that in the introduction. What exactly is precision emotional healing? We talk about the importance of not only our physical health and our spiritual health, but our emotions are tied into our overall health and into our physical health. And I, you know, realize that once again this past summer when I was going through the endometrial cancer, and how important it is not to ignore and not to keep pushing through. But explain to our listeners what exactly is precision emotional healing.

Raj Jana:

Yeah, so precision emotional healing is a process of identifying the root causes of what is actually contributing to your present day stress responses. It could be a fight or flight response. It could be an overactive nervous system. It could be a symptom, whether it's an autoimmune flare up, in some cases, a cancer diagnosis, like there's so many, so many things that are happening in the body. What we do is we basically use a framework to track your emotions, your stressors, and get to the root of what is actually happening in your mind when you're experiencing this. Because what we find is that this trigger or this argument you might have with your loved one about not doing the dishes for the 15th time, it's never really about the dishes. It's never really about the dishes. And so when conventional healing and conventional emotional healing is focused on addressing the symptom. Okay, there's this thing happening with your partner, the spouse, they're not listening to you, you go into talk therapy and they just talk it out, right? Precision Emotional Healing does a deeper dive. It's like, okay. What's the thing,underneath the thing, underneath the thing that's actually getting triggered? There's this feeling that I don't matter. There's this feeling that my voice is just not important. There's this feeling of not being able to trust another human being. And there's all these feelings that are happening. Well, one of the things that we've realized in our research, and after taking thousands of individuals through our frameworks and witnessing this work, is that these responses that you're experiencing today are very rarely responses that began today. Oftentimes, these are echoes, if you would, of previous experiences in your life that have been similar. If you weren't heard today by your spouse, there's likely a memory at the age of 26 where you didn't feel heard by your professor or by your sister or by something. And the body keeps the score, right? So this is a lof of Bessel Van Der Kolk's work, like The Body Keeps The Score. And so what we're doing in Precision Emotional Healing is tracking all of these memories that are related to whatever stress response you're experiencing today. And then from there, pairing you up with precision tools to address those root experiences, those root beliefs, and release the energy that's happening at the root level, and then watching the cascade of impact that happens afterwards. So precision emotional healing is about doing some of the diagnostic work ahead of time, if you would, for the emotional wellness piece.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, I love that. And I had a mapping session with one of your individuals that work for you all and it was amazing. I was just fascinated how she easily walked me through that process of, let's take a look back when you were 37 and share a memory at that time that was difficult. And anyway, and then what did you feel? And so she walked me through my timeline starting today, all the way to my earliest memory that I could remember. And then after all that evaluation, you sent a report. And then in my app are tools that I can now use to help when things like that are quote unquote triggers, you know, to be able to have these tools to use to overcome them. And one thing that I'd like to share to the listeners that I really appreciate about what you all do is that you all are very cautious of where people are coming from and the things that they've carried, but also where their faith is. And no matter whether you're a Christian or come from another faith, you have tools for myself, that I may not use some of the other tools that may be available to someone who is not. And so I really appreciate that you guys were sensitive to that and creating the app so that this can be applicable to the individual as an individual and what helps them to heal.

Raj Jana:

Yeah, and you know, one of the big things we've realized in our work is that when you feel safe, your body heals. When you feel understood, your body softens. When you feel seen, your body flourishes, right? And so a lot of this work is different from just going to get another diagnostic tool like your blood panels or something like that. Like, yeah, you might get your lab report back and feel seen. In this world, like all of those little touch points matter a lot. And so when you're going through our programs or our processes or our emotional lab reports, we're really doing the necessary work on our part to understand you. And from there recommend tools that are most likely going to be received by you because we can prescribe whatever is the best in the world, but if it doesn't resonate with you, if it's not in alignment with your beliefs, if it's not something that you already have experience with in some way, shape or form, like it's going to be an uphill battle. So our intention is to empower you on your journey. You're the one that's going to be healing. We're not the healers, right? Like, at the end of the day, your body is the one that's doing the healing, and so empowering you to remember that is a big part of the work we do.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, so in your experience, what are some common misconceptions or misunderstandings about emotional well being that you've come across and how does Liber8 address these?

Raj Jana:

Yeah, so I think one of the biggest ones is that, you know, if you fix your mind, everything else is going to be better. And so we call it mental health, right? Like, it's mind health. I'd like to shift that to nervous system health, because mental health doesn't really account for the body and the emotions. It doesn't really account for the impact your relationships are having on your, um, on your mental wellbeing. So when we think of nervous system health, we are looking at the holistic picture. And, and that to me is the most empowering piece because you might be going to therapy session, after therapy session, after therapy session, not getting anywhere because you're focusing on mental health when what you really need to be focusing on is your emotional health, is your spiritual health, is your relational health. I mean, these are all aspects that I think encompass a more holistic way of looking at the problem. And so I think that's one of the biggest challenges that we see is kind of reframing from like, well, but I go to a therapist. Yes, you do. And that's incredible. It's incredible foundational work for you to understand yourself. And to us, like therapy, conventional talk therapy only covers a certain bucket of the experience because most of our challenges are stored in the body and restoring that connection to the body in a safe and effective way is the path to really liberating ourselves from the hold that these emotions and stressful states have on us.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes.

Raj Jana:

So I think that's probably the biggest one.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, I think that's great. So I shared a little bit about it, but can you walk us through the process of how someone starts their journey with Liber8? You know, what can they expect in terms of the assessments and insights and personalized recommendations? We touched on it, but I really wanted you to walk them through what that looks like.

Raj Jana:

Yeah. So it doesn't matter if you're signing up for our, you know, three month cancer resiliency program, or if you're signing up just for an emotional lab report on our site, they're all the same process. You sign up and then from there you get a link to download our app. And inside the app, we're guiding you over a 10 day period to really start paying attention to your emotional triggers. Now what we consider a trigger is any moment you experience a negative spiral of emotion that you become aware of. So, it could be, I get in an argument with my spouse, I'm afraid of my labs coming in, I don't like what I see, my doctor doesn't hear me. Whatever the trigger is, it doesn't matter. We ask you to log that and pay attention to it. We ask you about 10 different questions, you answer those in the app and then you attend a 90 minute session. Inside of the 90 minute session, we have an experienced mapper who was someone on our team, take you through a process we've developed called Precision Emotional Mapping, which is where we take these triggers you're experiencing today, and we take you back in time to uncover other experiences that are similar to these feelings or these stories or these wounds that are getting activated in the moment today. So we do that sort of, it's kind of like our diagnostic effort. From there, we then generate an emotional lab report where we look at your trends and your patterns. And then we look for tools that have worked for individuals like yourselves and based on your intake that we were collecting a lot of information about, like how you heal on a scale of, you know, science to woo, where are you? We have a lot of different questions around your beliefs and what. And we do our best to create a precision emotional healing plan that is tailored to your unique challenges, to your unique way of healing. If you like meditations, we prioritize those. If you're interested in trying more outside the box kind of practices, we'll recommend some of those. We give you books, podcasts. And then from there you get access to our free community of other patients and patient advocates and other individuals who are on their health journeys. And you get access to a lot of curriculums on mental well being, emotional well being, relational well being, and access to tools. And we have, we create a lot of resources. If you're in any of our programs, then you'll join a cohort and you'll get to do this alongside other people that are just like you. And so that's basically the, the way that we, we've designed them.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, and how is that different than the three month cancer program that you have?

Raj Jana:

Yeah. So the one off emotional lab reports are where you push the lab report, you go to that same process I just gave you, and then you get an emotional lab report. And that has tools for you to do on your own. You join the community. There's so many resources that you could do at your own pace, from the comfort of your chair, and you'll be well taken care of. The cohorts are more focused on us taking these mapping sessions and the data uncovered and doing live workshops with experts to begin actually healing and not healing, but really shifting the way that you see some of the memories from your past, shifting the beliefs that you may have about yourself or your health or your wellbeing and really focused on in three months, getting to a place of having the most empowered mindset that you can have. Having a toolkit for navigating challenging emotions as they show up on your journey. Specifically we really bring in a lot of education around addressing the emotional roots of cancer. Like we do a lot of cancer specific programming, and really bringing in resources and experts to help cancer patients specifically navigate the emotional terrain or the emotional aspect of the disease itself. And so this could be fight or flight responses, like you go into a lot, you get your labs back and you're freaking out. What do you do? Here's a toolkit for that. We have so many little toolkits for specific experiences that cancer patients go through and you're in a community with other patients and, um, So that's a big part of it. And then throughout the three months, we're doing multiple mapping sessions. So we're actually tracking your progress and making changes to your plan and your recommendations based on what we find and what we see and where you're stuck. And so it's more of a handheld experience. So at the end of it, we really are your co pilots on this journey, as opposed to the emotional lab report, which might be like, we're still going to be cheering you on. You still get the mapping session, you still get everything, but after you get your report, there's not a deeper hand holding like we would do inside of a three month program.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, it's just the tools that, you know, that you can use and that are available to you, which are great too. And so what have you found as far as like, have you heard people talk about, you know, I know the emotional health is a lifelong thing, but to change old thought patterns of how you feel about things, like people will say, well stress is a big indicator and it increases your insulin. So, you need to stress less. Okay, yes, we all have stress, someone's saying stress less, but how does that actually be incorporated into lives to make a life change and how long does that typically take in your experience with what you've seen?

Raj Jana:

Yeah, so one of the first tools that we recommend to anybody who gets an emotional lab report is a daily practice. Now a daily practice can be a few things, right? So we have daily practice. Oh, I'm gonna go for a walk every day. Sure, that's gonna be helpful. You might, if you just take a walk every day in nature, yes, over time you will feel better if you already haven't been doing that, right? But we are big believers in doing a daily practice of nervous system regulation or nervous system rewiring in some ways, and there's a lot of tools that we recommend based on your unique psychology and your unique preference to like what that tool might be so like. For some, it might be breathwork, a daily breathwork practice. If you start with a daily breathwork practice where you are moving energy in your system, I mean, in a matter of a week, I've seen people have significant changes, but if you do it once in a while, it's more momentary. This is why we like to call them daily practices, right? So whatever your daily practices, it could be hypnosis, self hypnosis. It could be meditation. It could be a daily gratitude practice where you have a journal out. That's my favorite practice that I do for myself, like I can already, I can actually feel myself go off path when I skip my gratitude practice, when I skip my morning prayer, because that for me is, is the most important thing that I could be doing for my mental and emotional well being. And so for each person, it's different. For myself, I know that doing it several days in a row, I start to feel, I start to feel slightly different. Now, physiological changes, I can say like, the individuals that have gone through our three month programs in three months, they are like in a whole new world. So three months is a long time of committing to a daily practice. And in the grand scheme of life, it's really not that long.

Ivelisse Page:

No.

Raj Jana:

So, yeah, a lot of power in a daily practice.

Ivelisse Page:

Okay, so you mentioned that there are over 4, 000 studies that show the connection between reducing emotional stress and lifelong health. Could you share some of those findings or examples from these studies that highlight this relationship?

Raj Jana:

Yeah. So one of the, I don't even remember where we got that. That was probably my team. if I'm being honest, yeah, I'm not the research guy, I'm more of the the front end guy, but, there's so many research studies on, actually, there's just one that was talked about on Andrew Heberman actually around the science of a journaling practice. I think it was like, like Jeffrey Pembach or something like that of University of Texas at Austin, where he did a study on a 15 minute journaling practice where all they did, the only thing they did was talk about their big emotions, or like a stressful life event, and every day for 15 minutes, they just talked, wrote about the event consistently. And several weeks later, they came back and they measured somebody's levels of depression, anxiety, and they were far below. And then when you look at that with the physical, I mean that, that's one study of just emotional healing in general as like a tool for reducing, um, anxiety and depression. But there have been, you know, if we look at Ayurveda, if we look at ancient systems, like there have been so many, I'm trying to think if I have any like real for specifically for cancer or we want to go like any any disease states.

Ivelisse Page:

Any disease state, and you know what, I didn't mean to put you on the spot, so like what you can do is have your team send that to us and we can put the link to those studies because we have some individuals that love to see the science and the

Raj Jana:

We have so many I can actually go to my I've so many on my website. I got something like I can go and pull them

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah.

Raj Jana:

Yeah, I'll do that.

Ivelisse Page:

Do that and we can add it in the show notes. I'm going to also add in the show notes, your three month cancer program. We'll put a link to that as well, because I think that that's so valuable and important. I know our time is almost up, but I wanted to ask you, could you walk us through the three phased approach to emotional resilience that you employ at Liber8, which is the awareness, the healing, and the integration?

Raj Jana:

Yeah. Our approach is basically like a, it's an amalgamation of several different psychological theories put into one framework for going from unaware to acceptance. And when we think of unaware to acceptance, that is the journey of healing, right? So, cause when you get to greater levels of acceptance around your past, around yourself, around your circumstances in life, that's when we really start to see the entire system sort of come back into alignment from like an emotional, mental, and spiritual angle. So awareness begins with our logging and our mapping. So that's where we start to track up to 500 mental, emotional and behavioral health data points through our app and our mapping process. And that's the work that we're doing to really get clear on, okay, like when you experience stress, what is happening? From there we then go into generating a healing plan. This is where the three month healing plan happens. And we're looking at all elements of the mind, the body, and the heart, which are the three kind of components that we see make up this holistic nervous system health approach, as opposed to just mental health. And so when we look at your beliefs, we look at your relationships, we look at your memories, we look at your emotions, where your emotions are being experienced in your body, do you have physical pain, do you have symptoms? Your plan is designed to help address all of that. And then integration is sort of that third piece of, okay, like once you actually use the tools, how do you continue keeping and replacing the habits that you have the negative habits that got you to this point? How do you actually stick the landing? Because one of the things that we like to say is, state change, this moment of happiness that you have after a meditation does not mean trait change. And so integration is a lot about, okay, like you have these big experiences, you have these tools, but how are you bringing this home into your life? How are you setting better boundaries if your relationships are the source of all your stress? What promises are you making to yourself and how are you keeping those promises? What kind of accountability groups do you have around you to support you as you continue making all this change? Um, and that's really a lot of the work that, that's our approach. So when we think about it, we start with the awareness, we develop a plan, and then we support you in integrating the insights that you get from these healing tools, these books, these podcasts, these resources into your life and keeping those as your new frame.

Ivelisse Page:

I love it. What would you say to someone today who's listening and doesn't know whether or not they need this emotional side of healing or they're struggling with some illness like many of our listeners are with cancer? What would you say to them today?

Raj Jana:

One, be kind to yourself. I think cancer in particular is just, it's, there's a lot. You're inundated with so much and whether you're interested in emotional healing because for whatever reason, you know, you're feeling overwhelmed and I just want to let you know that you're loved. I know it's hard and there's a lot of big emotions and sometimes you can feel very lonely and not like you've got support systems around you and just want to give you a big hug. Let you know that we see you. We get it. And, yeah, I don't think it's, it's, it's a really hard, especially on the families. It's really hard. And I just want you to know how much we see you.

Ivelisse Page:

I love it. Raj, you know, is there anything that I didn't ask you about emotional healing, that you would like to add before we close today?

Raj Jana:

I will when I can't wait to send you more studies that you can link into the show notes. Cause I feel like I completely fumbled there. Um,

Ivelisse Page:

not at all. Yes.

Raj Jana:

I, I think, what I just want to empower for individuals is you have more power than you think you do. Emotional healing is one of those, like, it's like the big swing because your nervous system is connected to everything. It's like it's connected to your immune system. It's connected to your digestion, like everything. And so by having the courage, the excitement, the enthusiasm, the curiosity to lean in here, we've seen just incredible changes and a lot of our community members, just from practicing self love every day. From forgiving themselves or others, or letting go of anger and and processing resentment and setting better boundaries. I mean these aren't prescriptions that doctors provide, and what we've seen over time is learning these skill sets can have such a big impact on your well being and your inner peace. And I think beyond just that, like your inner peace being worth something, I do see at least the trickle down impact on health and health improvements for individuals that, that really integrate this body of work into their lives. So, yeah, I'm just a big believer. This is why I've dedicated my life to this work and our team. Everybody is so passionate about this because we've just seen the change that's come in our own lives as a result of leaning in and it doesn't need to be scary. It really doesn't. I know our emotions can be pretty overwhelming and I know that some of us have trauma and there's like a lot of things underneath the hood that I think we may rather just keep there. Um, and I just want to really speak to it doesn't have to be scary. It doesn't have to be that it can be a loving experience when you're doing this type of work with others that see you and get you and cheer you on. So, yeah.

Ivelisse Page:

Well, thank you, Raj, so much for joining us today. It was super insightful, and I know that our listeners are going to really appreciate having your tools available to them, especially while undergoing something difficult like cancer. So thank you for your time.

Raj Jana:

Yep. Thank you.

Ivelisse Page:

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