Believe Big Podcast

69-Dr. Rob Reimer - Soul Care, Part 1

• Ivelisse Page and Dr. Rob Reimer • Season 2 • Episode 69

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Healing is a process.  And sometimes it is a long, arduous process that has many complicated, deeply-rooted layers.  Often, true healing involves working on all parts of the person, the physical, the emotional and the spiritual, and it can get messy!

Today, we get to chat with Dr. Rob Reimer and he takes us into his pastoral history of helping people heal.  It led him to write one of his books, Soul Care, and we get to touch on the seven principles he outlines in the book.

So, what is Soul Care? 

"It’s a process of getting “unstuck” by cleaning out old hurts, sins, bitterness and secrets to make room for joy, peace, freedom and fullness" (taken from Dr. Reimer's website, Renewal International).

This is the first of a two-part podcast with Dr. Reimer, so join me today as we begin to unpack what it takes to take care of our soul.

Connect with Dr. Rob Reimer at Renewal International:
https://renewalinternational.org/

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Ivelisse Page:

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big Podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page, and it's an honor to be with you today. Today, we have a special guest whose passion for God's kingdom has led him to help others through spiritual renewal. Dr. Rob Reimer is the founder of Renewal International, and he assists pastors, leaders, and churches globally by equipping people to live in freedom in Christ. and to walk in the fullness and power of the Holy Spirit. He has served as a professor of pastoral theology at Alliance University in New York, and is the founding and leading pastor of a church in New England. Dr. Reimer is an author of seven books, including one of my new favorites, Soul Care. Rob also teaches and leads conferences all over. Welcome to the show, Rob.

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Well thank you, Ivelisse. Good to be with you.

Ivelisse Page:

Well, as you may know, our listeners are always interested in discovering what our guest's favorite health tip is. And so before we begin our podcast today, I would love to hear what yours is.

Dr. Rob Reimer:

So one of the things that I believe is that we have a spiritual, emotional, and physical component and I think you have to have a balanced life where you have inputs in all three areas in order to be healthy. So, I look at it like a gas tank, for example, and you need to have three gauges. And I want those three gauges to all be up and to the right so that they're full. And so I think when I think about my health, I don't just think physically, but I think spiritually, emotionally, and physically making sure I'm giving inputs to all three tanks.

Ivelisse Page:

That's such great advice. I mentioned it before the podcast, so many of us, and especially in this cancer world, we are so focused on the physical side of healing, which is important, but so much of the time, we leave the emotional and the spiritual to the side or the back burner, and they need to be equally addressed, and so I'm so glad that you mentioned that, and it's actually part of what we're going to be talking about today. The Bible tells us in 1 Thessalonians that, may God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. So, if we dive into this verse, it clearly states that we are composed of three parts. The body, the soul, and the spirit, like you mentioned. But before we talk about the need to care for our souls today, this is something that's always, was confusing to me, and I'm sure is confusing to other people. And as a pastor, can you kindly share with our listeners the difference between our spirit and our souls?

Dr. Rob Reimer:

So when I think about the Spirit I'm thinking of one of three things, right? So either the Holy Spirit, or the spirit in us that is born from above and now is alive in Christ or demonic spirits. So I'm thinking of the spirits in that sense. When I think about our soul, it's just the human stuff, but it's not physical. So it's your mind, it's your volition, your will, it's your emotions, it's your center of operation, if you will. And that's your soul.

Ivelisse Page:

So in essence, you're saying like the spirit within us, as believers, we have the spirit of Christ in us, so that is our spirit, that can't be touched because once we have accepted him, he is a part of our lives forever. So that's different than our souls, which is like our emotions. That and things like that. Okay.

Dr. Rob Reimer:

So, you know, when we got saved, when we put our faith in Christ, our spirits became alive and they're perfected in Christ, but our souls are still a bit of a mess and they need to be cleaned up. And that's where we're working out our salvation.

Ivelisse Page:

So in the next few minutes, I'd love for us to go through the seven Soul Care principles that you share in your book. The first one being identity. You say that what we believe about ourselves is the foundation of our life, and a faulty foundation can cause cracks in our souls. Can you talk about that? Yeah, so Jen and I, my wife, we were in a marriage situation early on in ministry where we got stuck. We'd planted a church. Church was growing, good things were happening, she didn't like me anymore. And, I would sit back and in the beginning try to pray that she would change, right? God fix her, heal her, do whatever she needs. But you can never fix a relational problem by focusing on someone else's issues, right? So I started to realize I need to change. The only problem is I had no idea how to change. I grew up in church and the church taught me how to behave. They didn't teach me how to change. So I started going after God and just really like, how does life change work? And one of the things that he started challenging me on was I believe things that I wasn't living out. So I believed that I was deeply loved by God, but I wasn't living in all my human interactions like a deeply loved person. And one of the problems we have in the church is we ask the wrong questions so often. We ask somebody, do you know you're loved by God? Listen, if you ever showed up in church, if you ever read your Bible, if you've ever read John 3:16, you know you are loved by God. The question isn't, do you know you're loved by God? The question is, are you living in all of your human interactions like a deeply loved person? You could know you're loved by God, and the foundation of your life could still be a mess. And if that's the case, when you go to interact with other people, there's going to be all kinds of problems in your interactions. You're going to have dysfunction. So, yeah, I had to figure out how to set Christ's love as my firm foundation. You know, you share an external change cannot alleviate the internal torment. A change of circumstances will not overcome the power of the lie that we have believed about ourselves. So how can individuals practically fix these cracks in our foundations? Yeah, it starts by identifying the lie, right? So in my case, the chief lie that I was wrestling was the issue of my value was determined by whether or not my wife especially loved me. And I'm trying to make her love me, which then you're being controlling, manipulative, all kinds of things. And you're trying to draw life from something that can't give life. God is the giver of life. Jen can't give me life. And so I'm trying to suck life out of something that has no life in it, And so I had to get to the place where I realized, Hey, I have a lie that I'm tying into the issue of my values dependent upon whether or not Jen likes me. Now here's the truth. I want Jen to like me. Life's better when Jen likes me, but even if Jen doesn't like me, the issue of my value is not determined by that. The issue of my value is settled at the cross. When Jesus died for me, the Father said, I love you so much, I'm willing to give my son for you. So first you have to identify that lie. If you don't realize you're living on that lie, you're never gonna get free. The second thing I would say is you got to identify when you're standing on that lie, when you're living off that lie. How does it manifest? What does it look like in your life? So I think about three questions for that, right? So I think about number one, what do I think when I'm on that lie? Number two, what do I feel when I'm on that lie? Number three, how do I act when I'm standing on that lie? So in my case, my mind was racing all the time because I was fearful that she didn't love me. I was feeling anxious, nervous, tension, defensive, and I was acting off of those things. I had to get to the place where I went, yeah, I want Jen to like me. Life's better when Jen likes me, but even if she doesn't like me, Jesus likes me and that's enough for me and I need to start living like a deeply loved person. I love that. That's so good. Such a good lesson for all of us. So the second principle is repentance. You share that it's more than just a change of behavior. Can you explain the difference between repentance and biblical repentance? Yeah, so let me give you two things. First thing, I think, you know, you got to go back to the concept that Jesus said, repentance is good news. This is his message. His message is good news and his opening sentence is repent. So therefore in Jesus mind, repentance is good news. But if I'm honest, I think most of the times growing up in the church, repentance felt like bad news. It felt like a heavy, weighty, you're a terrible human kind of a thing. But the biblical example that Jesus is giving in essence is this. He's saying that when you sin, you get out of alignment with God. And if God, as we said earlier, is the source of life, when I get out of alignment with God, I'm no longer in the life flow of God. I'm now in the desolate wastelands of human existence, and repentance is a call to get back into alignment with God so the river of God's life can flow freely and unhindered within me. I think about Acts 3:18, right? Peter, on a day that he's preaching right after Pentecost, he says you need to repent, and he says there's two results. Number one, he says that your sins may be wiped away, which is why it's good news. You're no longer carrying guilt, shame, and condemnation. And two, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord. That river of life will flow over in us and through us, and we'll start to feel the surge of Christ's life in us again. That's why it's good news. So repentance really is about getting back into alignment with God. We're putting God at the center, and we're saying yes to God, no matter what he asks. What would you say to someone listening today who is carrying a heavy burden, and they have confessed over and over for something in their past, but they are still living under the weight of that condemnation or that shame. Yeah. So there is a difference right between, shame and I've confessed my sins. 1 John 1:9, right? If we confess our sins, he's faithful and just to forgive us our sins. So many people, when they have shame, they just go back to that verse. The problem isn't an unconfessed sin though. The problem is you have shame and shame ultimately is really a feeling that If people knew me, they wouldn't love me, they wouldn't accept me, I wouldn't belong, there's something wrong with me, I'm broken, damaged, irreparable because of all that I've done, or that's been done to me. And so shame is an identity issue that's manifest in community, and the Bible's clear that we're sinners. But we're deeply loved sinners. And when shame comes in, we know about our sin and we feel like deeply unlovable sinners, and we've got to get to the place where we realize that there's shame and when we have shame, we need to bring that into the light under God's love. And without any judgment, including our self judgment, all the negative critical stuff that we allow to flow through our heads, we got to stop that, catch that. And, I find it's really helpful if you want to break shame to walk in the light with God and others. That's super important. Shame, because it's an identity issue manifest in community, it can only be cured in community. And so it needs to be brought between somebody and us, that's a reliable person who will love us and not judge us. And then we're accepted. Here's the trick, right? If I present to you a pretty cleaned up version of me and you love me, I'm not really loved because I know I didn't present my real self. The only way I can truly be loved by you is if I present my true self to you. And for that to happen, it means I'm going to have to take a risk. I'm going to have to be vulnerable and see whether or not you'll really accept me. That's, That's fantastic. How does unconfessed sin, you know, this is different than, shame was different than unconfessed sin. You talk about how it can also display itself in physical pain or a problem. Can you talk about that? Sure. Many, many times when I'm doing conferences or praying for people, and I, when I used to pastor, I'm no longer pastoring now, but when I used to pastor, people come up to you with a physical problem. They want prayer for healing, right? And you're praying for that person for a backache or for migraine headaches or whatever it is. And as I'm praying for them, sometimes I hear the Lord. And he'll say to me, they have a secret. And I'll just say to the person, I hear the word secrecy, or that you might have a secret. Is there something you've never told anyone that you need to confess? And all of a sudden the tears start, right? Or I'm praying for somebody some days and I hear the word bitterness and I'll say to the person, I hear the word bitterness. Does that mean anything to you? I was praying for a lady one day and I said that and she goes, well, I hate my mother. I go, well, that would definitely count. And I said, are you willing to forgive her? And I think she had migraine headaches. She goes, would it cure my headaches? I'm like, I don't know, but it'll help your life if you forgive your mother. So she did and God healed her headaches. What I can tell you is many times there's a physical component to sin. And it's not all of our physical issues are connected to sin in the sense of immediate sin causes it, although they're all connected to the fact that we live in a fallen world. Sin stained the world, broke it, but not everything is connected, but there are times where it is directly connected and you could see someone repent and literally get healed. I was praying for a guy in Brazil one day. I hear the word bitterness. I said to the guy, I hear the word bitterness. And he said to me, he started, he said his son had cheated him in a business deal, stole his business, stole all kinds of money. Before I could even say to the guy, you need to forgive your son, he falls to his knees and starts praying blessings over his son, crying out to God to forgive his son. And by the time he finished, I never prayed for him, he stands up, throws his arms in the air and his shoulder had been frozen. Every time he'd move it, he was wincing with pain, totally cured. And all he did was forgive his son. So yeah, anyways, I've seen that kind of stuff happen dozens and dozens and dozens of times. That it's powerful. Forgiveness is so powerful and I have a story that we don't have time to talk about it, but I did share it on Susie Larson's podcast. We can put the link on to it, but forgiveness is such a powerful tool in the healing process and, that was part of my healing story of cancer. But going on to now principle number three is overcoming family sin patterns. Can you explain this and how does one overcome these patterns? Yeah, so two things. First, to explain it, you see this concept in the Bible that the sins of the parents visit their children, right? So, you think about somebody, for example, like David. David, we know, is a good guy, is a guy after God's own heart, but there's a couple of issues going on, adultery, murder. But what you're interested in, in the family pattern, is to see how it explores out in the next generation. So Absalom, one of his sons, is also sleeping with his father's concubines in public, and tries to kill his father. Sex and violence. One of his other sons, Amnon, rapes one of his daughters. Sex and violence. And this time, we have incest, right? And then Solomon, right? So Solomon has a thousand foreign wives, which I just want to say by any standard could be considered excessive. I mean, that's a lot, right? The guy's got some issues. He could never say no to himself, but he also at one point in his life is, unfortunately, because these foreign wives, he's worshiping other deities. God sends him a man who is there to correct him, to bring repentance, because that's good news. And Solomon tries to kill him. And so you see, again, sex and violence. This is what the Bible's talking about family sin patterns. There's a tendency for all of us to fall prey to our family sin patterns. They're strong. They tend to be repeat-oriented, repeat oriented. They keep showing up in generations. So the key, I think to break them is you got to go after them a little bit harder than you do on some of the other ones, because there's some DNA strength to them. Plus there's behavioral modification stuff, meaning, behavior modeling there, where lots of people are modeling this for us. Our grandparents did, our parents did, and so you know what, it becomes normal. We don't even question it anymore. And then, then there's also, I think, some demonic strength to it. The Bible says one family, a generation after a generation, sins in the same direction becomes a curse, which is a demonically reinforced pattern of behavior. So, I just think these require a little extra due diligence in order to break. You gotta pay a little closer attention to them. You can't give a lot of wiggle room in them. I talk in the book about some things that I did that were super helpful, but I will tell you the most important thing was the fact that I started to realize, I was standing near a black hole and I didn't get to play around in these areas and, other people maybe could have permission in some things that I couldn't have permission in because they were too strong a pull in my family. And so I really monitored them really carefully and got super, super honest with people around me about these things. Yeah, I agree. My husband's family has a background of alcoholism and when we got married, we made the decision, not that it's wrong, but to excess, yes, and we made a commitment to each other that in our family that we would not drink alcohol or have it in our home and what a great thing for our family that we've been able to walk in peace and break that cycle hopefully for future generations. So yeah, the type of things that you're talking about. Yeah, exactly. And in my case, there was a lot of sexual immorality in my family. I was struggling with lust early on in our marriage. It was all in my head. There wasn't any activity outside of marriage. Even before Jen, she's the only woman I've ever been with. It wasn't pornography. It wasn't like that. It was mental imagery stuff. But I realized like when I watch TV, I might get some of these kind of images later on, come back and cause me lustful thoughts. So I said to Jen, it would really help me if we got rid of our TV. We're the only people I know that didn't have a TV for a while, but it was helpful. Now we have a TV. I don't know how to turn it on without my son. But we do have a TV if I want to watch something. But you know, it's just, I did some pretty strong, severe steps to deal with sin that enabled me now to feel free from that stuff. Yeah. And I think to each person, they have to really see what those things are. And I always just felt like it's not, let's not see how close we can get to the line, how far away we can stay away from that line. Exactly. So, okay, going on to soul care principle number five is about healing wounds and this is really a powerful chapter. Can you share the analogy you talk about in the book about splinters? Yeah, if somebody came up to me today and they hit my thumb like that, right? I'd be like don't worry about it, but change the analogy slightly. Let's say that my thumb had an infected splinter and somebody came up and bumped me. I'm going to have a disproportional reaction to the impact, right? Because I have an unaddressed wound in my thumb, so any kind of impact is going to cause me to disproportionately respond. Well, it's the same thing to people all the time. Somebody bumps up against them, they have an unprocessed soul wound and BOOM they have this emotionally volatile reaction, that's because they have a wound there. You know so I always say to people in conferences, listen if someone's ever told you you are emotionally overreacting, that's because you are. I mean don't defend yourself, just admit it, just go, wow, I'm overreacting. The key question, my favorite Soul Care question, actually, is what's underneath that? Why do I do what I do? Jesus says it's out of the overflow of the heart that a person thinks, acts, and so forth. So try to figure out what's underneath that. Why do you do what you do? But I would say that there's a flip side to this thing, whereas some people are over reactors, other people are under reactors. It's more for them. Like they would have something like leprosy. A leper could put his hand on a hot stove and never feel the heat until he smelled his flesh burning. And for some people, it's like their emotional nerve endings are cauterized, and they no longer feel the full range and bandwidth of their emotional capacity, and they have this limited, narrow bandwidth of emotions. That's not normal. That's not healthy. That's not even biblical. The Psalms, there's a rich range of emotions. Grieving is a normal part of the Psalms. When you're struggling with stuff like cancer, for example, I mean, you've got to get in touch with your emotions, and you've got to be able to grieve those emotions, or you're never really going to be healthy emotionally. We started by talking about the importance of physical, emotional, spiritual health, having access to all your emotions and be able to process pain in life is a healthy, normal response. Yes. Everyone carries internal pain or some external type of baggage that affects their relationships, their walk with God, and even their well being. So how do you recommend those listening to heal these wounds in a healthy way? Yeah, so start by journaling, even if you're not like a, you know, sit down and journal type person, do bullet points on your phone. You all email and take some sort of notes or whatever. Gosh, just do bullet points, just simple things like, Hey, I'm wrestling with and put it in one sentence and then, and I feel and put it in three emotions or five emotions or whatever, just bullet point outline if you're not much of a journaler. But you know what? Self awareness is the gateway to transformation. It doesn't guarantee it, but you can't get there without it. So that which you won't admit has already defeated you. You've got to get to the place where you name these things, if you're going to overcome these things. So that's where you start. Start with a little bit of journaling. Then for me, I always take that to God. I process that stuff with God. So I actually do a prayer journal. I literally write out all my prayers to God. Well, not all of them, but pretty much every single day I start by writing out prayers to God in that every single day I begin by processing my negative emotions. Every day. And the reason for that is because I recognize if I don't process my negative emotions, then those things are going to accumulate in my suitcase of my soul. And so what will end up happening is I'll become unhealthy. So that's why process my negative emotions every day. But there's another thing, and that is the earliest indicator, something is starting to get out of alignment between me and God is a negative emotion. So think about this, right? But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, and peace. Oh, those are the emotions of the Holy Spirit. That's where he starts. Love, joy, peace. When I start to get out of alignment with the Holy Spirit, you know what I don't feel? Love, joy, and peace. I feel irritation, aggravation, annoyance, sadness, depression, all kinds of things, but not love, joy and peace. So when I start to feel these things, I realize, Hey, I'm out of step with the spirit. I got to process this thing. I got to figure out what's underneath this thing. I got to surrender whatever I need to surrender. And then I can get back to love, joy, and peace. Yes. I started doing that this summer and it was incredible. The difference it is when you are really unpacking those emotions each day, not just once a year or quarterly or monthly, it really things add up quickly and it's so important to address them. And I love that you reinforce that by saying that you do that every day. So soul care principle number six is one that our Believe Big community works hard to do each day And that is overcoming fears, famous Mark Twain quote is courage is not the lack of fear, but acting in spite of it. So what are some practical things that those listening can do today to be courageous in the face of fear? So one of the biggest things is you got to get rooted in your eternal citizenship. So if you really think about most of our fears are connected to our temporal identity. So for example, we have wars going on all around us right now, and so then we start to go, is the world a safe place? And I start to feel fear, but it's actually connected by temporal world, right? Or I have financial fear because my job is threatened or the economy's going south on us. And I start to feel, Oh, my gosh, am I going to have enough money? Are we going to be able to retire? Yada, yada, yada. And it's all connected to my temporal citizenship. Most of my fears are connected to my temporal citizenship. It's true for my relationship with my wife. She's upset with me. Is she going to leave me? You know, in those early years, right? Temporal, temporal, temporal. So if I can get rooted to my eternal citizenship, it can help me to overcome fear. I just think about Paul for a second, right? So, Paul, in the letter to Philippians, he's in prison when he writes the letter, and he talks in the beginning of the letter about some people, and he says these people are actually preaching Christ for spurious motives. The reason they're actually preaching Christ is so that he will get in more trouble. They're hoping somebody's going to kill this guy, and that's why they're preaching Christ. And then this, this incredible line Paul says. But what do I care? So long as Christ is preached, whether by true motive or false. I mean, what are you gonna do with a guy like that? How do you stop him? And then he makes this crazy statement. He says, for to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. Paul's like, you know, listen, if I live here on earth, I'm all about Jesus and his kingdom. So if those guys preaching the gospel to get me more trouble, advances the gospel, awesome. And if I die, Who cares? I die and wake up in the arms of Jesus and I never have to face any of the battles on earth anymore. I mean, how do you overcome someone like that? What do you do to threaten a guy like that? What's gonna knock him off his game? There's nothing because he's so deeply rooted in his eternal citizenship. The greatest problem. I'm traveling the world. I've been on every single continent and I would just argue this day in and day out. The single greatest problem in the church today is we're making life too much about us and not enough about Jesus. It's too much about us. It's about our wants, our needs, our feelings, our opinions, our emotions. our state of health, our wellbeing, and it's not enough about Jesus and his kingdom. And, and I think to myself, if I could make life all about Jesus and his kingdom, I could be less miserable. You know what I've discovered? The only time I'm miserable in my life is when I'm making life too much about me. The only time I'm miserable in marriage is when I'm making marriage too much about me. What about my needs? What about my wants? What about my opinions, my feelings? And as soon as I make it all about Jesus and all about Jen, I'm not miserable. And that's what I think has to happen if we're going to overcome fear. We got to start getting really centered on Jesus and eternally rooted in our eternal citizenship. That's so well said, especially for those of us who have gone through cancer or are going through cancer. There's such a peace that we have because we know that we all have, all of us, even healthy people, individuals have an expiration date. God knows that day and that hour and what peace to know that it's not the end. This is not the end. Exactly. And so we can put some resources, and links with this podcast for anyone who's interested and that would really like to dive deeper into that and really find out what that really means, we will put some resources along with this podcast as well. And as we close out this podcast, last but not least is principle number seven, which is deliverance. And this is a topic that we need to have you back on to discuss in greater detail because it's something that people need to understand better. And many in our society and myself included in high school think that, used to think, that things like Ouija boards and tarot card readers are harmless and it's just having some fun, and they don't realize the dangers in it. But for this podcast, as we close we can dive into this more detail in the next one. I would love for you to briefly share the story of the woman you helped to deliver who practiced voodoo and suffered from panic attacks, depression, and suicidal thoughts. And I believe you were 25 at the time. Um, I was. Yeah, I was, I was 25. I was on my first month on the job of ministry full time. And a woman came into my office because she was suffering from depression, suicide ideation, panic attacks, all that kind of stuff. I asked her to tell me her story, you know, your life is never divorced from your story. And so I just said to her, tell me your story. Her mother was a voodoo priestess. She had been a voodoo practitioner. She had come to faith in Christ. She'd given up the voodoo, but she's still experiencing stuff like she's hearing voices. The voices are blasphemous. The voices are telling her to harm herself. And, uh, even kill herself and I'm listening to this and I'm it's ringing all my bells. I'm like, this is demonic. I mean, this girl's got demons, right? And so I just looked at her and I said to her, I said, have you ever considered that your problem could be spiritual in nature? She's like, you think I have demons, don't you? I'm like, yeah, I definitely do. You know? And she's like, yeah, I think so too. I mean, I used to worship them. I hear their voices. And I said to her, Oh, well, I said, let's get some help. So I went down and got the senior pastor, you know, and he said to me, I've never done deliverance, but if you lead, I'll pray. I'm 25. What the heck do I know? But I had at least had some training in it and seminary and stuff. So I'm all right. So I dive in. And I ask the demon its name, I call it to attention, I ask it its name, and then, you know, I ask if it has any right to stay, ground, that's called, then I would ask its leader, I'm up six up, six out, and I get to the seventh one, I get its name, I ask if he has a leader, he doesn't have a leader, doesn't have any ground, I tell it to go, and the thing says to me, no, and I'm like, you can't tell me no, he's like, yes, I can. I'm like, no, you can't. He's like, yes, I can. And I'm like, oh crap. I'm in trouble. I have no idea what I'm doing. Right. But, you know, here's a great thing when you do in ministry, you know, you're tied to the one who knows all things. You know? So, I mean, you're in Christ, Christ is in you. So I just wait on the Lord and I hear the Lord and he says, he doesn't have to leave. He's a shared spirit. And I just said to Jesus, I said, pretend I'm brand new at this. And I have no idea what that means. What's a shared spirit. He's like, it's shared with another person. I'm like, is that legal? He's like, yeah. I'm like, okay, what do I do? I've been trying to send them to the pit cause that's what I was taught. And he goes, you can't send it to the pit. It has someplace it can go. Just tell it to go where I send it. So I look up from this moment of prayer, go, go where Jesus send you. As soon as I say it, boom, the thing leaves. Uh, you know, she's free. The spirits are gone. About three minutes later, the phone rings and it's the voodoo priestess, her mother. That spirit left that girl and went right to her mother. And her mother received the spirit and knew that that girl was with us. And she called us. She had never called the church before, that voodoo priestess. She had never called the church again after. But in that moment when that spirit came to her, she called us and she said, Is my daughter sitting with you right now? And it was like, doo doo doo doo doo doo. Man, we just entered into a world that I didn't know existed. Wow. But you know, since then I've done, yeah, thousands and thousands of these, and seen lots and lots of people set free from all kinds of wild stuff, so it's been really fun. Incredible. Incredible. Yeah, I think our society, we like to focus on the angels, and uh, and all the good. the good spirits that are there, but you know, there's the dark, there is a dark side that is talked about and needs to be addressed. And so I am excited about diving deep, a little further into this topic, on our next episode. And so thank you, Rob, so much for joining us today, taking time out of your busy schedule. I know that this is going to be a great resource and encouragement for those who are facing, fighting, and overcoming cancer. Glad to be with you. Blessings to you. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support our podcast, please subscribe and share it with others. Be sure to visit believebig.org to access the show notes and discover our bonus content. Thanks again and keep Believing Big!