Believe Big Podcast

70-Dr. Rob Reimer - Soul Care, Part 2

• Ivelisse Page & Dr. Rob Reimer • Season 2 • Episode 70

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Today, we continue our discussion with Dr. Rob Reimer on caring for our souls.  This episode,  Dr. Reimer shares his experience with demonic spirits, deliverance and includes several real life stories.

Dr. Reimer also touches on:

  • how he first became aware of demonic influences; 
  • how a person can become demonized;
  • what can prevent deliverance;
  • how to break ground and get rid of demonic spirits

Don't miss this incredibly interesting conversation in this second episode with Dr. Rob Reimer.


Learn more about Dr. Rob Reimer at Renewal International:
https://renewalinternational.org/

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Ivelisse Page:

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big Podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and it's an honor to be with you today. Today we have Dr. Rob Reimer back on the show to discuss a subject that I felt really needed a full episode to discuss, and that's a topic of demonic deliverance. There is an invisible war that many of us are completely unaware of. It is a spiritual war where Satan and his demons are actively trying to destroy every area of our lives. How do we engage in this battle so that we can begin to live in victory and freedom? A little bit about Dr. Reimer, he is the founder of Renewal International, and he assists pastors, leaders, and churches globally by equipping people to live in freedom in Christ and to walk in the fullness and the power of the Holy Spirit. He has served as a professor of pastoral theology at Alliance University in New York and is the founding and lead pastor of a church in New England, and also the author of seven books. Welcome Dr. Reimer to the show.

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Thank you, Ivelisse. Good to be back with you.

Ivelisse Page:

So, I know last time you shared about your favorite health tip, about the physical, the emotional, and the spiritual. Do you have a different one?

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Yeah, so I'll give you another one. So one of my favorite health tips is that it takes two healthy people to have a healthy relationship. Scale of 1 to 10, if you're a 3 in terms of your emotional, spiritual health, the healthiest relationship you'll ever have is a 3. And the only way you can get from a 3 to a 5 is you have to change. If you do what you've always done, you're going to get what you've always got. And so we have to become healthy people to have healthy interactions with others.

Ivelisse Page:

So good, so good, I love that. So I would love to start by having you share the story of how you first became aware of demonic influence in our world. You mention in your book, Soul Care, that you grew up in a church that really didn't talk about it, even though you knew the Bible talked about it and that Jesus and his disciples did deliverance. And I'm sure there are many, many listening today that are in the same boat. So can you

Dr. Rob Reimer:

share? Yeah, we grew up in a Bible believing evangelical church, but you know, the only time you ever heard anybody talk about this stuff was either when they preached from the Gospels, Jesus doing deliverance, or maybe a missionary would come to town from some exotic place like Thailand or Africa or something. And you know, your worldview is very seldom thought through. It's just assimilated. So, you know, you start to think, well, I guess demons live in Thailand and in Africa, but we've apparently kicked them all out of the good old U. S. of A, right? They don't live here. And so that would have been my worldview. And I was in seminary. I'm in my second year of seminary. I was talking to my then fiance, now my wife. We were on, I was on a pay phone. I'm dating myself, Ivelisse, but I was on a pay phone and I'm sitting on this pay phone and there's a kid pacing in front of the phone and I thought, ah he's waiting to use the phone. I said, Hey, I got to go. And I hung up and I said, the phone's available. And he goes, actually, I was waiting to talk to you. And I thought, well, all right, well, I didn't know the kid. Oh, you were on a seminary campus, but the college campus shared space. And so I figured he's probably a college kid. I didn't know lots of the college kids. So I sit down to talk with him and I'm not three minutes into a conversation with this kid. And I got a thought that has never entered my mind. Now at this point in my life, I'm 23 years old, right? And I just thought this kid has demons. And there's three reasons why I thought it, right? First, the first thing he told me was he was hearing voices and the voices were telling him to kill his father. Oh, no, that seemed pretty dark to me, right? Second thing, he's so confused. He can't put in two to three sentences in a row that just have logical sequential order. And he just is super confused. That could have been mental illness. Admittedly, at that point in my life, I had very little experience with mental illness, but it didn't feel like it. It felt demonic. And finally, periodically, we're having this conversation. He just leaned his head to the side and growled like, I don't know. That's felt a little dark to me too. Right. And I think most people at that point may have picked up on the fact that this was demonic, but you know, I think most people would have tried to get out of the conversation as soon as they could run for the hills. But I actually believe what I'm about to say. I think your next level with God lies beyond the boundaries of your current experience, and the only way you can get there is risk more than you're comfortable with. If you do what you've always done, you will only ever see what you can accomplish. If you want to see what God can accomplish, you've got to get out into the spaces where you can't do it. And so, you know, I looked at this kid, and I just said to him, you know, Rich, have you ever considered that your problems could be demonic? He looks at me and he goes, you think I have demons, don't you? I'm like, yeah, I really do. And he's like, yeah, well, you know, John Ellenberger told me I had demons, but I didn't believe him. Well, John was a missiologist. He was a missions professor in the school that I was attending. John had been a missionary to Irian Jaya. They had seen 6, 000 Donny people come to faith in one day. These were animistic. People, they would worship these demonic entities and they would appear to them out of the fire ceremonies physically. And John did deliverance. Man, he'd done more deliverance at that point than anybody I knew. I just looked at the kid and said, listen, if John Ellenberger says you have demons, then you have demons. And I said, if you're willing, I'll get John and we'll have a session with you and I'll, I'll be there as support to you. I'll pray. I mean, John'll lead it, he's got experience and, uh, he was willing and we tried, the kid had some stuff he wouldn't repent of. So we couldn't actually get any demons out. And, and that was my first experience. I was 23 years old and it opened my eyes to the fact that, hey, there's demons, even in the good ol U. S. of A. Who knew?

Ivelisse Page:

You mentioned something really, I was going to ask it later on in the podcast, but you said it couldn't be deliverance because delivered because he was unwilling to be repentant. What are some other factors that prevent that deliverance?

Dr. Rob Reimer:

So there's really, there's three big areas of access. I like to use the word access, right, or ground. You could use the word ground. One is sin, and sin is really simple. If you repent, then the sin is covered by the blood of Christ and the access is broken. So that's that, right? But if you're not willing to repent, then I always say to people, you're a spiritual being in a spiritual world. You're always giving away spiritual access. You don't get to choose if you give away access, you only get to choose to whom you give away access. You pick up the tools of the kingdom of evil one, and you are giving access to the evil one. You pick up the tools of the kingdom of God, you're giving access to, to Jesus. So, if you have bitterness, which is part of what he had. If you have bitterness in your soul, you are giving access to satan through bitterness. That's a tool of the enemy. Jesus told you to love your enemies, bless those who curse you, forgive those who sin against you. When you pick up those tools, now you're giving access to Jesus. Boom. All ground is wiped out with that, right? But if you're not willing to forgive, not willing to repent, then the ground is still there. Second area besides sin would be secrets. And I'm not talking about your secrets at this point. These are things that happen to families, and things that families do, and they never talk about. But it's darkness. Somebody's given Satan access in the family, and no one's ever addressed the access. I'll just give you an example. I was praying with a guy one day in my doctoral class and I had been doing deliverance with the class in a, in a doctoral setting. And this guy comes up to me afterwards and he's like, Hey, would you just pray with me individually? He goes, I just want to make sure I don't have anything. And I said, sure. So I go to lay my hand on him. And as soon as I go to lay a hand on this guy, immediately I know his mother was molested. I don't know him. I don't know anything about him. But I just said to him, I said, do you know any story about your mother being molested? He's like, well, no. And I'm like, I think so. And I put my hand in the center of his chest. And I just said, blocking spirit come forth. Now a blocking spirit is a spirit that is associated with a sexual abuse spirit, and their whole job is to keep you from discovering the sexual abuse spirits. And they usually manifest in some way, mostly emotionally, that's how they mostly manifest. And so when I said blocking spirit come forth, his tongue doubled in size. And he couldn't speak. He was mute, which I've never seen that manifestation before or since. It was just so bizarre. And I just looked at him. I go, your mother was molested. And he looks at me and he nods his head. And then I called the spirit forward. His name was Secrecy. And then when I called that spirit forward, we got through the sexual abuse spirit. I just, when I finished with his deliverance, I said to him, go ask your mother if she was molested. He did. He called her that night. She had been molested. She had never told a soul. It had happened 40 years earlier or some odd amount, I don't know, 50 years earlier, and she had never told anybody. And, you know, so sometimes there's a secret like that in a family where something got to enter in because of something that happened or something someone did. And now there's this spirit that's there, but it's hiding underneath the secrecy of the family. And then the third area is curses. And you know, some curses are things like, uh, ceremonies or covenants through other religion, right? So for example, all religion is ceremonial and covenantial. We have that as Christians. We do baby dedications and baptisms and communion and all these kinds of things. We anoint people with oil for healing. There's ceremonies, right? We do covenants too. We are in the new covenant of Jesus blood, et cetera. Well, all the other religions do it too. So they do baby dedications too, but a baby dedication done in any other name, but the name of Jesus is a curse, even though the parents mean it as a blessing. Demons never bless. They only curse. They hate us. So when you do a baby dedication in another person's name, it creates a curse. And so, you know, that would be the third kind of an example of how they get access. You have to discover those access points either through natural knowledge or supernatural knowledge through the Holy Spirit, and then you have to break them. And then you can kick them out.

Ivelisse Page:

Wow, just amazing. It's amazing. Can you share with our listeners about the discussion you had with a medium that lived in your town and share what you told her about the difference between good spirits and bad spirits.

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Sure. We had a lady when we were living in the Boston area who was a well known medium actually had written, bestselling books in the New York Times on mediums. Anyhow, I just wanted to get to know her. I mean, she was really well known and, lots of people would refer to her, go to her. She would sell out shows sometimes with hundreds of people and stuff. And she was authentic, spiritual power, obviously dark side power, but authentic spiritual power. She wasn't a charlatan. And so she walked up to a lady in my church one time and read her mail. Just like you were, you had cancer. You had a baby while you had cancer. You were in the hospital. Your cancer's in remission and the baby's fine. Everything she said was spot on. Never met the lady before. And, just had that kind of stuff going on, you know? And, anyhow, so one day I just asked her for a lunch. And, I did it with a friend of mine who was her pediatrician. And I just said, Hey, let's do lunch with her. And so he set up the lunch and I sat down with her and I said, listen, you know, you're, you're one of the top spiritual influencers in our town. And I really just wanted to hear your story. I just wanted to get to know you. She's like. All right. And she was a little nervous, you know, as you might expect. And, honestly, I think she's a little nervous cause Christians aren't always nice to her. And, so I said, all right, well, I said, I just would like to get to know you. So, uh, tell me your story. So she was Catholic. She's telling me about all kinds of Catholics experiences and upbringing all this kind of stuff. And then I she's also a syncretist, right? She's bringing in all these other different practices from all these other different religions and she started telling me some of those stories. She may be halfway through her story or something and she looks at me and she leans in real hard across the table and she goes, what do you think about all this really? And I looked at her and I said to her, I said, well, I said, before I answer that, I said, can I tell you something that's been on my heart since the moment I saw you? She goes, yeah. I said, I want you to know that the Father loves you. And she burst into tears and I just reached out and took her hand. And I just said to her, I said, listen, I said, the Father's been after you your whole life. And I want you to know from the moment you walked into this we were in a restaurant, I said, I could feel the Father's tender affections flowing towards you. He loves you. And, uh, you know, people all the time get wigged out by this stuff, but at the end of the day, these people that are acting on these things aren't our enemies, they're duped by our enemy. And you know, they're just people Jesus died for. So they're not the enemy, we can't treat them like the enemy. And you know, Jesus isn't afraid of this stuff. I always say to people, when you're nervous about something, you're out of alignment with Jesus, because Jesus isn't nervous. Jesus hasn't had a nervous day in the last two millennia. Today's not his day. You're not his girl. I'm not his guy. So when I'm nervous, it's because I've lost sight of Jesus, right? So anyways, these things don't make me nervous. So I just sat there and listened to her for a little more. She told the rest of her story and when she finished telling her story, she went back to the question. What do you think of all this really? And what I said to her is I said, listen, I think you've had a lot of authentic experience. I think your experiences are real. I wouldn't question that. I said, but I think there's a difference between the spiritual world. There are good spirits and there are bad spirits. And I said, you've had some experiences with some good spirits. I mean, she told me stuff about the Father, Son, and Holy spirit. And then she's had some bad spiritual experiences. And I said to her, I said, some of those guys that you've interacted with are acting like good guys, but they're not really good guys. And I said, they're deceiving. And she looks at me and she goes, do you think that's why my children have apparitions in the night and are terrified? And I go, yeah, I do. And she looked at me and she said, well, could you get rid of those? I said, yeah, absolutely. But you'd have to stop being a medium. Oh, I can't do that. She said, that's where I make my money. And I'm like, then you're going to keep welcoming those spirits back. So your children are going to continue, unfortunately, to have those apparitions.

Ivelisse Page:

Wow, I just love the way that you ask questions in such a loving way, and I think that that's a lesson for everyone listening, that when you're speaking to someone who may not have a full understanding of who Jesus is, that we need to ask questions in love, because as we know, love does conquer all, and I just love that story so much. Can you explain the difference, and this is something that I'm sure you get asked about a lot, the difference between demonic possession and influence, and can Christians be possessed?

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Alright, so first, I would never use the word possessed. The actual Greek word is demonization. So if I were actually going to use the word, I would just transliterate it right across into English and just call it demonization. And the word demonization is only ever used in the New Testament for an indwelling demonic spirit. And the only solution for that is the Greek word ekballo, to cast out. That is because it's within. So again, think of your soul for a second like a suitcase, right? So here's the reality. You put your faith in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit now lives within you. You are in Christ. Christ is in you, but you still have sin in the suitcase of your soul. That's a fact. As a matter of fact, 1 John chapter 1 says, if you say you don't have any sin, you're a liar and you call God a liar. So we have sin. Now hear me for a second. We have everything we need in Christ to overcome sin, but we still have sin. That's the fact, right? Putting our faith in Christ didn't eliminate our struggle with sin. It also is a fact that we still have human brokenness. We have heartache, we have brokenness, we have disfunction. Putting our faith in Christ didn't overcome all of our dysfunction, heartache and brokenness. Why do we think that putting our faith in Christ immediately eliminates all of these spiritual beings, these entities that are out there. That's not the way Jesus does discipleship. The way Jesus does discipleship is that he puts his Holy Spirit in us so that we can learn to live in his victories, right? So that's how we have to walk out of our sin and into his holiness. That's how we have to walk out of our brokenness and into his wholeness. And that's how we have to walk through demonic stuff that we may have picked up in life and walk into, you know, a sense of cleansing from those things that they're kicked out. Um, so what I would say is the, the analogy, if you think about it this way for a second, two things. One, the suitcase belongs to God, right? So possession. isn't really at stake. The problem with the English translation demon possession is that possession implies ownership. And I want to say even a non believer can't be possessed. I would argue even a non believer can't be possessed because they're owned by God. Listen, do you remember the story where Jesus talks about the guy, comes to him and says, you know, should we pay taxes? Because the Pharisees are all trying to get him, right? And he says, give me a coin, whose image is on the coin? Caesar's. Oh, well then render to Caesar what is Caesar's, but give to God what is God's. Do you catch what he's saying? He's saying, listen, that coin is stamped with the image of Caesar, therefore it belongs to Caesar, but you, are stamped with the image of God. Therefore, you belong to God. That is true for every single human. Non believer and believer alike, we belong to God. So, possession is not a biblical concept. I would say that's a terrible English translation coming out of a Western worldview that doesn't understand spiritual things. Okay? So, what we're talking about, really, is can a demon indwell someone? Well, yeah, sure. Of course. Christian or not, sure. Absolutely. But what you're looking at is the suitcase belongs to God. I think of God's, sanctification process, and this is the second thing I was going to point out. God's sanctification process, right? How God cleans us up to make us holy, right? So the Old Testament, when the clean comes in contact with the unclean, the clean becomes defiled. In the New Testament, when the clean comes in contact with the unclean, the unclean becomes clean. Jesus touches the leper. All the crowds are like, You can't do that, right? But when Jesus touches the leper, the leper becomes clean. That's what happens, right? And you know what? I think Jesus' strategy for cleaning us up was to throw His Holy Spirit right into the middle of our messy souls. That's His strategy. And he's like, we'll figure it out as you go along. And, he doesn't make everything go away. Doesn't make demons go away, heartache go away, dysfunction go away, sin go away. He puts his Holy Spirit in there and journeys with us to victory.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah. So like demons or evil spirits, unclean spirits, you know, in scripture, they're all really fallen angels. And they seek to control people to wreak havoc in our lives, enslave them to spiritual bondage. So how do spirits actually enter and how does a person, get demonized?

Dr. Rob Reimer:

So the main answer is sin. Right? That's the big answer. They come in through sin. So let me explain what I mean and what I don't mean. So first, what I don't mean. So sin, listen, they don't, they don't come in because, you're driving out of here today and you do a universal sign of disapproval for someone that's just cut you off. And now all of a sudden, because you've done that, you have picked up a demon. I don't mean that, right? There are certain sins that allow them to enter. And there's a world of difference between, I'm struggling to work out my faith with fear and trembling, as the scripture says, and I'm living in rebellion. Rebellion, the Old Testament conversation between Samuel the prophet and Saul the first king. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. And when you're doing rebellion, you're giving full access to Satan. So if you have an area of your life where you're living in open rebellion, yeah, you're going to give access. Could there be demonization that occurs because of that? Absolutely, 100%, for sure. Okay? Then there's certain types of sin that allow demonization. So, I mean, I'll give you a couple of examples, but, I mean, obviously, occult activity. If you're engaged in other religious practice, you're engaged in worshiping other entities, deities, you're gonna pick up demons. I mean, you're giving them full access. So, when you do that, then they're going to choose to enter, right? That's an obvious one, I would say, but, I'll give you another one. Sex. Listen, there's a lot of things that I don't fully understand, but I can tell you that I can see both scripturally as well as I can see experientially, and that is sometimes demons can be transferred through sex. Now, won't happen in marriage because you're under the covenant of God. But when you step outside the covenantal system of God, you open yourself up to that possibility. So for example, one of the classic examples would be prostitution. I don't know anybody that's engaged in prostitution that doesn't pick up demons. I've actually done deliverance on hundreds of prostitutes. Now, you know this, some of them didn't choose prostitution. They were trafficked, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. They were prostituted and as a result, they picked up demons and they need deliverance. And I've done that hundreds of times with people. Um, some of them are street walkers or some were high class escorts, but I got to tell you, know what a lot of it was? They weren't actually getting money. They were exchanging sex for drugs or sex for a favor. But at the end of the day, spiritually, that's prostitution. When that line is crossed, demons cross over and enter in. So there's a transference that can occur. The fact that they can enter through sexuality tells me that the more sexual partners you have outside of marriage, the more vulnerable you are. I would argue safe sex, you know, one man, one woman, monogamous relationship for marriage, for life, is not just safe sex, it's safe spirituality. And this is why God has set it up. So you start going into 200 partners, the chances of you picking up some sort of a sexual spirit in that process, I mean, it's super high. It's really, really likely, right? So yeah, this is the kind of stuff we have to consider. A lot of times these things occur through repetitive sin patterns that are unrepented of. That's really what rebellion is. Like addiction. Sadly, sometimes we experience this stuff because we are the victim. We aren't the perpetrator. For example, rape or sexual abuse, many times, again, demons can be transferred through sex, but they're transferred through illicit, abusive sex. And so a lot of times people will pick them up in sadly, abusive relationships.

Ivelisse Page:

Wow. There's so much there. And I've heard so many things in regard to that. And even in our society, there are so many things that are just common stay. And, and I know this is not going to be a very popular comment, but for me personally, I know that God told me to stay as far away because of my history, not to see how close I get to line to see how far I can stay from it in things like yoga. And today for me personally, I know that it's a founded and rooted in Hinduism where positions supposedly are worshiping different gods in the Hindu religion. And here in the U.S. I would say that many people find it as stretching and it's a form of exercise. What do you say in regards to that?

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Yeah. So I would say truthfully, Ivelisse, I've never seen someone pick up demons from doing yoga to Kim Walker Smith. Okay. Or something Christian like that was just exercise. And I've done probably over 10, 000 deliverances at this point in my life, just because I'm doing this stuff in conferences all over the world. So I've never actually seen that. However, I've seen and delivered lots of people who've picked up demons through yoga where there's chanting and all this kind of stuff, and it's actually a spiritual practice. Just a really cool story, but I was in a conference one time where the woman came in who was a yogi master, and she had been invited to come. When she came, she was not a believer. She had a million followers doing yoga with her on Instagram or whatever, you know, social media stuff. Uh, she ended up coming to faith in the conference. We ended up doing her deliverance. When I finished doing her deliverance, she wept with me and she said to me, I have been leading people astray. And I just held her by the hands and I said to her, yes, but now you can lead people into the light. And you know, she sent me an email recently. She was in China leading yoga, but she no longer leads the chanting and all the rest of this stuff. And she gave her testimony to a 100,000 Chinese non believers in that setting. So, I mean just a beautiful story but yeah people can find freedom from this stuff. You got to be careful what you're dealing with for sure. It's not magic. It's actual the participation and things that would allow a demon to enter. You don't have to be afraid you have to be wise.

Ivelisse Page:

That's a great way to say it. And so, how do you break ground and get rid of these demonic spirits?

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Make sure your sins are confessed, right? So that's number one. We have to do that. We have to make sure the secrets are exposed. As I said before, only two ways, natural or supernatural knowledge. Number three, then you have to make sure all the curses are broken. If there's been any dedications and that kind of stuff. Truthfully, a lot of the curses are our own. It's what we say to ourselves, about ourselves, stuff like, I will never trust anyone again. And that's a curse. But if there's a demon that somehow or another was holding on to that as ground, then unless I'm willing to say, Lord, that's not your plan for my life, and I'm willing to repent, then, and I'm willing to trust again, and I'm willing to forgive, unless I'm willing to do that, then the demon can stay. So you got to deal with those kinds of things. Now once you deal with that, then you really need someone to come with you and just, you know, work you through a process to cast them out. That's really important. You notice when Jesus does deliverance ministry, he always does it in public. You notice when Jesus sends out the disciples, he sends them out two by two. But you never see, you know, just Jesus randomly walking through towns of pagans and kicking out demons in pagan villages. The only place Jesus does deliverance is in public, with Jewish people, covenant people, or twice with Gentiles in public, the Syrophoenician woman and her daughter, who's too little, she isn't there, and Jesus just makes a command and she's freed, or the gadarene demoniac, who's the most demonized individual in Mark 5. And in that case, both of them display clear faith, right? And so, what you see is Jesus doing deliverance in public with people who express faith. That's what he does. And for us, we need to go with people. I think, personally, the reason why Jesus doesn't do deliverance with me privately is because if he did it on my own, with me privately, and the reason why I would want to be delivered just me and Jesus is because of shame, right? Oh my gosh, I got issues. I don't want to know. It's just me and you, Jesus. Me and you, Jesus. And Jesus is like, yeah, but if I delivered you and it's just me and you, then what's going to end up happening is you're still going to have shame. Because demons create immense amounts of shame. And so it would be better if I delivered you with other people so they know you and they love you and they accept you, and you break shame.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, that's so good. So, how would someone go about finding someone that knows about how to do deliverance in a healthy way, if someone is, you know, wanting that?

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Yeah, so my book, Soul Care, gives a methodology in the back, so you can certainly look at that. I can tell you stories about husbands and wives who've been reading the book together, and as they got to that chapter, one of them started manifesting, getting choked or something, like a demon showed up, and they're like, literally can't speak and handing the husband or the wife, the book. And like, I need you to help me kind of thing. And the person did their deliverance, helped them through. And then they came to a Soul Care Conference or whatever, and I cleaned them up. So you could certainly come to a Soul Care Conference, which I do all over the world. You could read the book Soul Care. I can tell you I've been training, I train people in deliverance. I do a deliverance training workshop a couple of times a year, live stream so people can watch it from anywhere. They can find that on my website, but at the end of the day, you want to go to somebody that has a little bit of at least training, experience if possible, and training. And then, so they know a little bit what they're doing. And then, listen, it's not magic. At the end of the day, Christ is in us and we have authority because we're in Christ and Christ is in us. There's no magic formulas. It's really about Jesus. I always say to people, but it's true. I have nothing, I don't have any magic. Jesus said, apart from me, you could do nothing. That's what I bring to every single encounter with every single person I've ever prayed for in my life. I have nothing. If Jesus shows up, you got a good shot. The kingdom could come and your life could get better. But if Jesus doesn't show up, nothing's going to happen. You know, I don't have any magic. So it's all about Jesus, not about me. It's not about anybody else doing this stuff. And, he trained his disciples to do this, but he was way better at it than they were. And yet he trusted them in this ministry. And so, you know, he's trusted the likes of people like us.

Ivelisse Page:

Is there anything that you would like to add that I didn't get a chance to ask you as we close out our podcast today about this topic?

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Ah, one of my favorite lines about this, so the Western worldview with this stuff has limited us. So we're blinded to the reality of biblical experience. For Jesus, deliverance was kingdom normal. And any, any time deliverance isn't normal to the church, please understand that the church is no longer to Jesus, is no longer normal to Jesus. You know, this is who Jesus is. This is what Jesus does. We use this line in Hebrews about Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. But if I'm honest, most of the church that I grew up in, the real message I was hearing was, this is who Jesus was, this is what Jesus did, not this is who Jesus is, and this is what Jesus does. And so I just want to say Jesus really hasn't changed. He's still doing deliverance. And, um, if you're stuck with some stuff that could be demonic, there's real hope. And I want to say it's cosmic treason for the church to possess the keys of the kingdom and not to utilize them to set the captives free.

Ivelisse Page:

Amen. Well thank you Rob, once again for joining us, and we look forward to seeing you again next time.

Dr. Rob Reimer:

Blessings to you.

Ivelisse Page:

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