Believe Big Podcast

76-Dr. Dagmara Beine - Hope and Knowledge in Navigating Pediatric and Adult Cancer

• Ivelisse Page & Dr. Dagmara Beine • Season 2 • Episode 76

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Today's episode brings back our very first Believe Big podcast guest, Dr. Dagmara Beine, a compassionate practitioner and devoted parent who's been through the trenches of childhood cancer.

Dr. Beine shares her personal journey alongside her daughter, Zuza, who was diagnosed with a rare form of leukemia at the age of 3.  Drawing from her experience in the conventional medical field and as an  advocate for integrative medicine, Dr. Beine sheds light on the untold aspects of childhood cancer treatment from her newly released book, A Parent's Guide to Childhood Cancer, Supporting Your Child with Integrative Therapies Based on a Metabolic Approach.

From navigating the maze of conventional treatments to embracing holistic approaches, Dr. Beine provides invaluable insights for parents seeking a more comprehensive approach to their child's care. Through this candid conversation listeners will discover:

  • The importance of building a supportive medical team that respects both conventional and complementary therapies.
  • Strategies for incorporating nutrition, detoxification, and metabolic health into a child's cancer journey.
  • Practical tips for addressing the emotional and mental well-being of both children and parents throughout treatment.

Tune in to "Empowered Healing" and embark on a journey of holistic healing and renewed hope for your child's future.


Learn more about Dr. Dagmara Beine:
https://zuzasway.com/

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Ivelisse Page:

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page, and it's always a pleasure to be with you. My guest today was our very first Believe Big podcast guest in 2022, Dr. Dagmara Beine. Dr. Beine is one of our Believe Big practitioners, very often helping our Believe Big pediatric patients. She holds a PhD in integrative medicine, has over a decade of experience as a certified physician assistant in emergency medicine, and is the founder, CEO, and clinical practitioner of her Wisconsin based health clinic, Zuza's Way Integrative Care. Zuza's Way is named for her daughter, Zuza who was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia at the age of three and a half. Dagmara knows firsthand as a parent what a family goes through when a child is diagnosed with cancer. Through her journey with her daughter, Dagmara has learned the importance of a comprehensive approach to healing that involves both traditional and complementary therapies that help to heal an individual's terrain. Knowing that there is a better way, Dagmara has recently written and published a book based on what she has learned as a parent and a physician through Zuza's journey titled, A Parent's Guide to Childhood Cancer, Supporting Your Child with Integrative Therapies Based on a Metabolic Approach. She is with me today to talk about this important book. Welcome to the show, Dagmara.

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Thank you, and I can't believe it's been two years since the first podcast.

Ivelisse Page:

I know, it's great. When you originally joined us here, you shared that your morning routine of meditation and prayer and sometimes journaling was your favorite health tip. Is that still the same or do you have another one that you'd like to share with our listeners?

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

I have a new health tip. Recently, and this makes my kiddos cringe when it happens in their presence. And it, because Zuza was stuck with me in a hospital room for a long time it made her cringe a lot, but just dancing. So I will put on a crazy song that just like moves me. And oftentimes when I'm by myself and just dancing your heart off for two to three minutes a day, or even yesterday, my husband and I danced in the garage. So that is my new health tip is just to try to dance with your loved ones, with yourself, because it just, it helps move energy, right, that we all need energy to move, especially if we're, we all have stuff that's stuck here. And so that's my new health tip.

Ivelisse Page:

I love that one. I don't think we've had someone share that yet. And it is so true because you're one combining community with your loved one. Like that emotional connection is so important. So you're touching, you know, dancing with your husband and that oxytocin is rising. And sometimes when we just dance like crazy, right? You know, we start laughing. And so that helps to relieve stress and bring joy back into our lives. So I love, love, love that health tip. So thank you for sharing that.

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Yeah, of course.

Ivelisse Page:

So can you share with us what Zuza's and your journey has been like to give our listeners a little bit of a background and understanding as you as her practitioner and as a parent.

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Yes. So, 10 years ago, which is wild. I was working as a physician assistant in the emergency department, conventional medicine training. Same with my husband. That's how we met. And we had a three year old daughter who was diagnosed with a rare and poorly prognostic leukemia. So we often hear of kids having leukemia, but it's often A L L, and it has a very amazing prognosis and 98 percent cure rate, unlike A M L and the type that Zuza was diagnosed with, much harder to treat. And our world turned upside down, just as every single other parent who hears the words, your child has cancer. Having conventional medical knowledge, I would say both helped us and hurt us. It's like we knew enough to probably be more scared, but just not enough about oncology, right? We were practicing emergency medicine. And just like every other family, we're thrown into treatment. I mean, treatment started the next day. And, realized fairly early in her journey that not enough is being done to support my daughter on this cancer journey. I have the most respect and really beautiful relationships with our team, who has been our team for a long time now. But their expertise is the tumor, the cancer, the chemotherapy, the protocol. And their expertise I learned quickly and the first thing that kind of was my light bulb moment was they wanted to give her, she became malnourished quickly as most kids do, needed an NG tube, and they wanted to give her a formula that was like high fructose corn syrup and seed oils. And that was my first lightbulb moment of, wait a second, if they don't know what kind of nutrition my daughter should be eating, what else don't they know? What else are they not doing for Zuza? And so that sparked my interest in what else can I do for her in trying to find books or practitioners. And I couldn't find either. And so, you know, probably a year after Zuza was first diagnosed, I just sort of, my life snowballed into becoming the practitioner that I needed 10 years ago. And the book was born out of this need. There's so many parents who start this journey and they're not going to find me that first day, but they may go to Amazon or Google and they may start typing in integrative support of childhood cancer. And my hope is that this book will come up and for$25 they have access to knowing that there is a better way. Zuza has since, she had five years remission and for the last four years has had multiple relapses and is my, my biggest teacher. Everything I know started with my daughter. I don't believe she would be where she's at. She would be having the opportunity to continue to be able to strive for a cure with toxic therapies had it not been all the integrative complementary support that she received. And just, sometimes I get upset, annoyed that we refer to some of this treatment as integrative because good nutrition is not integrative. Having a good circadian rhythm for your child is not integrative. Giving your child vitamin D supplements like that's not integrative medicine. That's just medicine and it's lacking.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. And I think what a lot of people don't understand too, unless you've been through it with childhood cancer, is that you don't have as many options because of the legalities of a childhood cancers many times parents are forced into just conventional treatment. And you don't have many choices by law. Sadly, I can't believe it as a parent, we can't make those medical decisions for our kids many times in the way we would want. So what advice would you give to a parent who is confronting that, that wants a more integrative approach? I know you mentioned it and it's not, and we don't see it that way either of nutrition and supplements and, you know, healthy therapies that support a body, and they're getting pushback from the pediatric oncologist. And how do you find someone that is willing to work with you without you being afraid that your child is going to be taken from you because you're not following their standard protocols?

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Yes, so this comes up a lot and you're right, most people don't understand as an adult when you get diagnosed, you truly get to choose how you want to approach your diagnosis and how much conventional treatment you want. As a child, especially at your first diagnosis or even your first relapse. You have to follow what's considered standard of care. And so, my advice, and I actually, the first there's a whole chapter on creating a team and stopping and breathing. My advice is you're creating a team. You are your child's advocate. I spend so much time empowering parents and shifting their mindset, that you are the one that is making these decisions. You are the one that gets to decide who gets to take care of your child. And it's very important who you decide gets to be your child's oncologist. And it's not a matter of trying to find an integrative oncologist, because unfortunately they don't exist. We just want an oncologist that's open-minded, that understands that we're gonna be creating a team and that you can start to build a relationship with, because most of the time it's not the legality, what usually comes up is not that parents don't want to do any conventional treatment. What usually happens is treatment starts and there's liver damage or kidney damage and the parents want to like slow down on treatment. And if you don't have a good relationship with your oncologist, like that's when legally it can get really sticky. So it's really being able to find a conventional team that's open and understands that there's going to be other team members at the table. I think that's the best that we can ask for.

Ivelisse Page:

And you can find that. In this past fall, I found that, you know, I was in a new state. I'm like, Oh my goodness, all of my resources are on the East coast, you know, but asking the right questions initially, interviewing three different oncologists from different hospital systems, you get to see how they respond to you. How they respond to your questions. Are they my way or the highway, or are they, you know, willing to work with you? And so that gives you a good indicator of how the future would be. And so, so I completely agree with you on that aspect. You mentioned a metabolic framework of understanding cancer in your book. And how does this differ from conventional perspectives? And what are its implications for treating childhood cancer?

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Yes. So. The conventional medical system is still based on the somatic theory of cancer, which essentially says that cancer is bad luck. And unfortunately, that is very much so. I think even deeper than adult cancer in the pediatric cancer world, that still runs very deeply. And oncologists hold parents hands and with a meaningful heart, they say, there's nothing you did wrong. And there's nothing you can do to make this better. Leave everything to us, you know, and they don't give hope. They just say, all we can do is what we can do. And it is much easier to believe that an adult, you know, maybe smoked, maybe drank, maybe ate too much McDonald's, got diagnosed with cancer, but it is much harder for society to accept that an infant or a three year old or even a 12 year old did something outside of just bad luck that created cancer in their body. And so it's very important and to educate parents that it's not what they did because they're always going to do the best of what they know. But the truth is that our world, our food and our environment has become extremely toxic. A newborn's umbilical cord, when tested, has over 200 toxins in it. And there are things and with epigenetic testing and toxin testing, we can actually figure out, for the most part, what helped contribute to your child's diagnosis and teaching parents that they do have control in helping heal their children because, you know, if it was blood sugar dysregulation because they ate crappy candy, or if it was toxins because they use Roundup on their lawn, they'll do better. Because they'll know better but conventional oncology doesn't go there yet. They just say this was bad luck and they almost take away a parent's ability to, like, parents want to know. They ask. Why did my child get this cancer? But they're often just told there's nothing that you did. Chemo radiation and surgery may fix it and parents go back to the same diet for their kids, put them back into the same environment and I explained to parents, you know your child's like a fish in a fishbowl. You can take that fish out of the murky water and fix it with chemo or mistletoe or vitamin C, whatever you use, but if you're putting it back into the murky water, the same environment, there's a really good chance that cancer is going to come back.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, and I think that a lot of, we don't want people to feel guilty, right? We already feel guilty as parents for things that happen to our kids many times, but we're not. I think knowledge is power and that's why things like these podcasts are so important for parents to understand that, you know, I mean, I even heard that the fruits and vegetables of the 1950s, the conventional fruits have more nutrients in it than organic produce does today. And it's because of our soil health. I mean, we're thinking about all of the things that came into play like GMO seeds and the Roundup that you're talking about and so much that you know, what do parents first feed their kids as a little snack, whether at church or in a playground, here have some Cheerios, you know, we're thinking that's a healthy thing and it's filled with glyphosate. And so, you know, it's important. Knowledge is power. There's nothing we can do about the past, but what can we do moving forward to make sure like you're saying that our homes are as healthy as they can be and our children's environment, our own environments. We are able to detox properly. So what are some things talking about that, that you would recommend for parents to help their children detox and to help make sure that, yes, we live in a toxic environment. What are a few things they can do to minimize those toxins in their homes and in their lives?

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Yes. So there's a whole chapter in the book about detoxifying, because if you think your child was sick in the beginning of treatment, multiply that by 10 at the end of treatment, because now, you know, they came into treatment with cancer and with all these reasons why the cancer developed, and then now they've gotten all this chemotherapy or all this radiation, and now their body, it needs healing, and that's a really big misconception in conventional medicine. We ring the bell, and parents take their kids home into the same environment, and they are not told that there needs to be healing now, gut healing and detoxifying. So when we talk about detoxifying, I teach families, you know, there's all these, our body's already doing it, right? Right now, detox is this like really sexy word that everybody's using and they're creating these fancy T's and that's not what we're referring to. Our body was wonderfully made and it is constantly detoxing. So we detox through our skin by sweating, we detox by having a bowel movement every day, our liver and our kidneys, and our lymph are constantly getting rid of the garbage. But when we're done with treatment, we need to help these little bodies that are now full of more toxins because of treatment and because of the steroids and because of the antibiotics and because of the Tylenols. I mean, it's not just chemo and radiation, it's all the stuff that you get in the package. So now we want to help the body. And I would say with kids we don't hit it hard. We go very gentle. So we can do very gentle things. We can do things like hot baths and castor oil packs, whether those are on the liver, on the lower belly. You know, we can do a little bit of dry brushing, but kids hate it. And then my favorite tool that I tell every family to invest in is a sauna because I don't believe anything compares all the things that I mentioned to teaching your child, and yes they can be very young when they start, to regularly sit in a sauna and sweat because that's going to be the, you know when we talk about glyphosate, it's water soluble. You're going to sweat it out. Most of the toxins; mold, heavy metals. We use sauna. And so that's one of my biggest, like, we're going to invest in a sauna. You know, there's really fancy, expensive ones, and there's ones that are portable and affordable. And getting kids in there on a regular basis. Also getting out on a trampoline and jumping. So good, especially for their lymph and then for kiddos because they're still growing, right? So when an adult goes through cancer treatment, they don't have to worry about the fact that maybe they haven't gone through fertility yet. Is that going to happen? And what's going to happen to their growth plates? Are they going to grow? So these are all concerns, and areas that we have to get through in the healing with kids. So jumping on a trampoline for kids that are growing is actually really good stress on the bones. Grounding, right? Putting our feet in the grass as long as it's not sprayed with glyphosate. Not at a park. So yeah, there's very easy things to incorporate into a child's daily kind of routine after their home that's just going to help support the detox process. And we haven't even mentioned a supplement, right? There's also a lot of those.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. And so, you mentioned with the saunas and I have a Sunlighten one that I've had probably for 10 years and love it. I also heard, you know, that it's really important that the wood that's used is not a toxic wood. So, you know, you may think, Oh, I'm doing this detox and you're in a sauna that has toxic or the wood was treated or something like that. So really important to realize all of that. And there's sauna blankets now. What's like a high end one that you recommend and maybe one that could be affordable for most like a portable one that you recommend.

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

So my favorite and it's the one we have high end would be Clearlight and that's it's low EMF or no EMF and the wood is you know cedar and the company that I like for affordability, and they have different kinds. So they have the ones you zip yourself up in or they have ones where you can lay and it's relaxsauna.com. So those are the two companies. There's also a company called Sauna Space where you can buy a light and almost like make your shower into a sauna. So like for people who live in small apartments or just don't have don't want to do the portable thing. So I would I usually recommend those three.

Ivelisse Page:

We'll put the links to that in the show notes for people to see as well. You know, in the book, you also talk about how nutrition plays a crucial role in your approach, and you mentioned it earlier in the podcast too. Could you elaborate on how you develop a metabolically healthy anti cancer nutrition plan for children undergoing cancer treatment?

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Yes, so the most important thing is meeting families where they're at. Because I will have a consultation with a family who is already paleo, not eating grain and so it's really then easy to explain to them what ketosis is. And like yesterday, I had a consultation with a family who didn't know that Chick fil A and Cheerios and these protein boost shakes were bad. So you really want to meet the family where they're at. In the book I talk about, I kind of try to make it really simple. So I talk about foundation nutrition, which is how all of us should be eating. You know, it talks about organic and non GMO and what that means and quality proteins and full fat dairies and healthy fats and what are bad seed oils. So I kind of develop a foundation of how we should all be eating. Then I talk about level one nutrition, which any family can do, as soon as they hear their child is diagnosed with cancer, without having to work with somebody like me or a nutritionist, they can very easily go to level one, which is eliminating sugar eliminating harmful carbohydrates, taking out the beans So that's level one. And then,

Ivelisse Page:

And real quick, before you go to, yeah, before you go to the next level, explain to people why beans can be difficult for a diet. Cause people think, wait, beans are high, or they're a good protein. I'm not able to eat beans anymore. I mean, I limit them. So explain why that with beans? Cause I'm sure people are thinking, what beans are bad.

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

So two reasons a metabolic approach especially nutritionally, does highlight a low carbohydrate approach. So, one of the reasons is beans are extremely high in carbohydrates, and they, it would be very hard for us to lower our blood sugar. which I'll get to next by eating a lot of beans. But the second reason we want to take out beans is because most of them are extremely high in glyphosate. And I guess I would add a third reason. It's the way that beans were meant to be eaten. We're not doing it right anymore. So, you know, let's just say you actually got your hands on some non GMO truly organic beans. For our body to be able to take them in, they have to be like soaked 24 hours and then slow cooked another 24 hours. And no one's doing that with beans. We're taking a aluminum, you know, can, opening them up and, putting them hopefully on the stovetop and not in the microwave. But it's just not a nutritious way for our body to be able to get anything out of them. But the glyphosate is also a really big one and that includes also chickpeas. So we always think of hummus as being very healthy, but you really have to go out of your way if you're gonna eat hummus for it to be organic because it's usually filled with glyphosate.

Ivelisse Page:

So even organic beans in the non BPA cans they are, they're the same.

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

They're the same. Once in a while, if you're soaking them and then you're really cooking them right, I suppose it would be fine if you're not in the midst of a cancer journey as a family. It takes a lot of effort to be able to have really healthy beans, I think.

Ivelisse Page:

Perfect.

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

And then I go into, I call it level two nutrition because I wanted it to be easy, but level two nutrition is essentially ketosis. I do believe from my experience, both with my daughter and with now hundreds of pediatric cancer patients that I've been able to be a part of their team across the world. And from beautiful mentors that I've learned from like Dr. Nasha Winters and Dr. Paul Anderson. I do believe that a child that is going through cancer treatment, in order for them to go through in the absolute best way, meaning to make treatment the most effective and the least toxic, that a child on the day they receive their treatment should be in ketosis. We do have studies for adults that show that if an adult is fasting the day before, the day of, and as long as they can the day after treatment, they can reduce their side effects by up to 80%. You can't really do that with a child. Kids are just too little to understand. I mean, it depends what child you're asking. If you're talking about a 16, 17, 18 year old I will take them through fasting, but we usually are referring to kids that are younger. So we can mimic fasting by putting them into ketosis. I don't keep or recommend all kids stay in ketosis all through treatment as a blanketed statement. Because for a diagnosis like A L L treatment's two and a half years, sometimes three, depending if you're a boy or a girl. I think it's fine for them to go back to level one around chemo, as long as they can get back into ketosis when they're getting their treatment. But for any kind of central nervous system tumors, brain tumors, I do believe that ketosis, because of the research that we have, is actually a part of their treatment, in addition to whatever radiation or chemotherapy or surgery they're doing. So it's really dependent on the type of cancer and if a child is coming into treatment with blood sugar dysregulation as being one of their contributing factors. So it's individualized, but for the most part, you know, removing sugar, removing ultra processed foods, artificial dyes, bad seed oils, is sort of, anybody can do that as soon as they hear their child is diagnosed with cancer.

Ivelisse Page:

Okay. As we're about to close this episode, I think one aspect of whether it's pediatric or adult cancer that is not really focused in on because everyone's so focused on the physical and what treatment steps and what do I need to do, you know, it affects our mind and our spirit as well. So how do you address the mental health and emotional needs of both children and parents throughout the treatment process?

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Yeah, you know, people always ask why are there not more integrated pediatric oncology specialists and I kid around that because it's so hard because you're taking care of the whole family. So my involvement when I become part of a family's team, it's probably more the parents than even the child, and especially if the child is very young. My husband and I, Ryan, have learned through Zuza's diagnosis how absolutely important and vital the parent's energy is during this process. And it's easier said now that we're 10 years into this. And I don't wish 10 years of this to anybody, but I can see the difference in my daughter from when we were first diagnosed and I was a fearful mess and I carried that energy around and I projected it onto her to having worked really hard on that and have not perfected it, you know, now dancing in her hospital room and bringing good energy and really working on sitting with the hard feelings and not trying to, the hard feelings are going to come up. The fears are going to come up. The images that you're, is my child going to die? Like, it's normal. Let those come up, sit with them, process them, breathe through them. And don't ever fake it. If you're feeling sad, share with your child why you're feeling sad at whatever age they're capable of understanding what you're going through. But really trying to work through this emotionally as a family, that's the hardest part of diagnosis. The last chapter in the book talks about, it's called healing as a family. This deeply affects mom and it affects her completely differently than it affects dad, and they, and it completely affects sibling. I mean, we have studies that show, like, siblings three years out from their sisters or brothers diagnosis have more mental health issues, don't do as well in school. And I don't, you know, I think talk therapy for some people is great, it's the only thing that's usually offered in hospitals, but I really encourage people in the book to look beyond just talking about the problem, because that's usually the problem, is we're stuck in our heads and we make up lots of stories with our heads. It's getting out of our body, it's sound therapy, it's, for certain states microdosing, if it's legal, it's red light therapy, it's sauna together, it's hiking together, it's forest bathing. So there's just so many different ways to heal as a family than just sitting in an office and talking about, you know, the fact that you're a cancer family.

Ivelisse Page:

I completely agree. And you know, we at Believe Big also have a resource for those of you who are listening who need some additional support. Listen to Dagmara's advice as far as, you know, don't just keep shoving things down because it's going to come back and hit you even harder. And so we have a great connection with Healing Strong that have support groups for all types, whether you have kids with cancer, whether it's you know, someone who's struggling with the diagnosis. There's so many different groups available. We've also partnered with Soul Shepherding who has radically changed my emotional health last summer, and even through this year. That you can meet with a spiritual director that can help move forward at helping you process these questions in a healthy way and directing you to the Lord to really give you that peace that surpasses this world's understanding that isn't understood by many. But when they help to guide you and propel you to look forward and to ask those questions, and even sometimes the hard questions that really support your soul, there's so much healing that is there. And I always say that cancer has something to teach all of us. And so it's not really the enemy, it's really it's really seeing where we're at and what can we learn from this and how can God use this for good to, to help many like you're doing Dagmara. And so in closing, I just want to thank you for all the ways you help all these pediatric cancer patients that we work with each day. Thank you for the knowledge that you've imparted in this book. And I'm going to repeat it again, and we're going to add that in the show notes. And it's A Parent's Guide to Childhood Cancer, Supporting Your Child with Integrative Therapies Based on a Metabolic Approach. So thank you, Dagmara for taking the time to do this podcast with us today, for writing this book, and for taking care of our precious children.

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Thank you so much for having me and just spreading such good hope and allowing people through your website to have so many free and amazing resources because it is so needed.

Ivelisse Page:

Thank you.

Dr. Dagmara Beine:

Thanks.

Ivelisse Page:

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