Believe Big Podcast

79-Tomek Wyczesany - Mindfulness, Meditation and Knowing Thyself

• Ivelisse Page & Tomek Wyczesany • Season 3 • Episode 79

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Welcome to Season 3 of the Believe Big Podcast!  We have a FANTASTIC guest to kick off this new season of episodes, Tomek Wyczesany!

Tomek is a mental health expert who combines neuroscience, cognitive science, and ancient wisdom to offer a holistic take on well-being.

He shares a timeless health tip: "know thyself" across physical, mental, and spiritual levels, especially valuable for those facing challenges like cancer.  Tomek also offers simple advice on beginning your mindfulness journey through relaxation.

Learn the difference between mindfulness and meditation, and how these practices can help you reconnect with your inner self.

Learn more about Tomek on his website:
https://tomekwyczesany.com/

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Ivelisse Page:

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page, and it's always a pleasure to be with you here. I am very excited about today's podcast guest. Our friend Tomek Wyczesany is a mental health and well-being expert with a doctorate from the University of Sydney. With a unique approach rooted in neuroscience, cognitive science, and mindfulness, he incorporates various wisdom traditions to offer a holistic perspective on well being. Tomek's expertise spans over 20 years of meditation practice, during which he has helped thousands of individuals transform their lives. His meditations, available on Insight Timer, have gathered over 4 million plays, testifying to their profound impact. Tomek specializes in using mindfulness modalities to expand the consciousness of his clients, guiding them towards managing stress, improving sleep and enhancing their everyday well-being. Through individualized coaching, Tomek empowers his clients to achieve meaningful transformation, leveraging his extensive knowledge and experience to facilitate personal growth and well-being. He is currently based in the beautiful sunshine coast of Australia. Welcome to the show Tomek.

Tomek Wyczesany:

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Ivelisse Page:

Well, we always like to know what our guest's favorite health tip is, and I'm sure you have many, but can you share one with us?

Tomek Wyczesany:

Thank you. It's a tough question. And when I thought about it the one tip that, is most important to me is actually two and a half thousand years old, and it's inscribed on the temple of Apollo in Delphi, ancient Greece or Greece, but it started two and a half thousand years ago. And that tip is simply to know thyself. And perhaps this might sound vague because when we hear about health tips, we rely on some external sources, maybe I don't know, doing something or eating something, but for me, and I hope you get to know me a bit better through this podcast. The most important thing is to get to know yourself on all the levels, the physical level, the mental level, psychological level, and even spiritual level. And they all combine into one whole. And I think it's not only a health tip, but a life's mission of everyone to know themselves better and better. And through that, we can better manage our health, not only physical health, but mental health and simply live more happy, more fulfilled life. And I can imagine this is something that is of importance to the listeners, to everyone, but also for people who are dealing with a cancer diagnosis. And it might be difficult for them to hear something. What do you mean? Know that, know myself, why this is important. But I think before taking any treatments and it's important to recognize what is happening within your body and mind. And maybe that's that's to start off with.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah. I love that you shared that because I think many times I call in our world today, we are in a hurry sickness running from one thing to the next, and we're not really taking time to look within ourselves to say, what do I need to let go of? You know, what do I need to add more of in my life? What are some things, boundaries that I may need to place to really help myself move forward in the next months or, you know, as I begin this cancer journey? And it's an area that many people do not focus on. And so that's why I'm so glad that you're with us here today to really shed light on this so very, very important aspect of our health. And so let's begin. I would really I would love for you to explain, because some listeners are new to mindfulness and meditation, and they might not even know what the difference is between them. Can you share what the difference is between mindfulness and meditation?

Tomek Wyczesany:

Yeah, thank you for this question. Well, mindfulness is being present to whatever there is with the not judgmental attitude. And meditation the way I understand it. And again everybody is entitled to their own opinions through their own direct experience is a state where we contemplate and explore certain aspects of the self through awareness. A lot of times people when hearing mindfulness, meditation they look at it in the same way. But I think it's important to recognize that we can be mindful at any given moment of the day. Being, either being, simply being, or performing any task. And usually meditation is more suitable for internal exploration where we mostly focus on the internalized landscape, and we might, it might be helpful to close your eyes and do it this way. However, in both cases. The emphasis is the way I understand it and the way I teach and practice it myself is on the internal exploration of our inner landscape that consists of so many different things and allows us, as you beautifully pointed out, to slow down the one quote unquote sense that is so dominant in our lives these days is thinking. So, we live in times where we are completely dominated, and identified with our thinking process. And I can speak from my own experience because I am a scientist and spent I don't know, almost 20 years in academia exploring different experiments and exploring scientific methods. So certainly I use my mind, but I also know that this very mind can get in a way of the process of slowing down and knowing yourself.'cause knowing yourself from the perspective of the mind, as it turns out, is only one angle that we can take. And that there's so much more. And both meditation as a way of exploration and mindfulness as a way of interacting with your consciousness and awareness being in the present moment in a non judgmental way. They both are very helpful tools on that path.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, I completely agree. For people who like analogies, I, I figure mindfulness is more when I go for a walk without my phone and I notice the birds chirping, I notice the trees changing colors. You taste that delicious dark chocolate and you are really in that moment enjoying. And so it's really being in that moment like you shared versus meditation for me as a Christian, I meditate on scripture. I visualize prayers and things like that, that can really help me to be more at peace and be more focused in my prayer life. So, So I love how you explain that. What drew you to mindfulness practices and how have you shaped your personal, how has that shaped your personal and professional life?

Tomek Wyczesany:

I think I'm not very original here, but my path with looking into myself through the lens of mindfulness and meditation started with my own personal struggle. So, as the listeners may hear, English is not my first language. I moved from my from Poland, my country of origin around 2005 to learn English and I went to London where I started working and learning English, uh, at that time, which was very, very, very poor, but there was opportunity arose where I could take a scholarship at University Queen Mary University of London and start PhD there. And that was absolutely fascinating and interesting part of my life. But the time I I finished my PhD, I moved to Australia to finish my PhD. And by the time I started finishing it, I've realized I'm completely unprepared for the struggles of the academic life and writing my thesis. And my mental health deteriorated tremendously. I was lucky to connect with the counseling services at the University of Sydney and, and find Maria who helped me to recognize some of the things that are happening and that are absolutely normal. But the truth is when the session finished, I was still left with one person that I have to deal with every day of my life, which is myself. My next step was, well, maybe I should start taking myself more seriously and look inside what is happening there. Because as much as I appreciate help of others, again, that aspect of knowing thyself is ultimately the way that to, to deal with your problems. And that's where I started. We had a very small group, which might be interested to the listeners of this podcast. It started, I was, I was raised Catholic and for many, many years the church structure was supporting my process. And it was only natural for me to start something which is derived from Christian tradition, which is the practice of Centering Prayer. You are familiar with the scripture in Lectio Divina and this is part of the, the Centering Prayer, which is essentially a Christian contemplative, meditative method to look inside. And that's where we started as a small group. And out of this group, I think was only three people that remained and we practiced for about two years. But then that struggle with writing up my thesis and my mental health and how to approach life and how to deal with stress led me much further into, years later, because it took years before I even admitted to anyone that I practice meditation, but it led me to expand so much more and to know myself and to know who I am better and consider my vocation, not necessarily as a scientist. But someone who supports a scientific method, and this is very, I want to make a distinction here, science very often can be used in the same ranks as the religion versus scientific method is a systematic exploration of, of anything can be an object, but also can be yourself. So, basically, I took myself on the canvas and started exploring and out of this, what, what came out was the fact that I want to make an impact on people's lives. And that was not possible in academia, the way I worked. And I found that actually sharing the knowledge that I, that I shed light through my personal practice was the best way of doing it. So, so long story short, and to short answer to your question, my journey with meditation and mindfulness started with my personal struggle. Right there.

Ivelisse Page:

It's amazing. Well, first of all, your English is excellent, so I really wanted to mention that. And also you mentioned Lectio Divina, and for those who are listening who may be unfamiliar with what Lectio Divina is, it's a method of scripture meditation. It was developed by Benedict in the 6th century, and what I do, at least for the Lectio Divina, is I read the Bible passage three times. And each time I'm guided by a question and it allows me to enter the passage experientially, feeling my emotion, my needs, listening to the Holy Spirit to speak into my daily life. And, those questions are like, what is one word or phrase that the Holy Spirit impresses upon your heart? What do you feel the second time I read it? What specific situation in my life does this relate to? And the third time I read it, I asked the question, What's God's invitation to me from what I just read? And for those of you who would like to know more about it, we have a Nourishing the Soul Healing Journal at Believe Big, and we can put a link to it that can help you walk through that process if anyone is interested in investigating that a little further. But thank you so much for sharing your personal story and I would love to hear from you if you could share some key mindfulness techniques or modalities that you use in your practice and how do you decide what to use in which situation?

Tomek Wyczesany:

That's an excellent excellent question. Back to Lectio Divina and your way of exploring the words it's an exploration. It is an investigation and most importantly, it's an inquiry. And that's how I use various techniques and modalities or I used over the years to approach the reality of myself, external reality through different lenses. However, as my practice and understanding myself evolved, I started recognizing that it is important to look beyond the technique, and to recognize that techniques are simply a tools to put us on the right path. But once we on this very path, we are our own guide, and that's very important because that gives us the right perspective that empowers us to see that we are, I always, my, something words I use to describe it, we are the active ingredient. The one most important, important person in your life is, is that you love very much is you, and I think it's very important to recognize it. It's not an external factor, it's you. So, I think humorous way of expressing that is be yourself, because everybody else is already taken. And as humorous as it sounds, this is something that, we don't very frequently do. We actually look up to others and we want to be as others. So in terms of the techniques and modalities I use, let me just share one with you that maybe is aligned with something that I started off with and very much is aligned with the tone of, of this podcast and, it is a method of centering prayer, which was introduced by Father Thomas Keating and explored and expanded by Cynthia Bourgeaud, people that I consider mystics of of the Catholicism. And they can be traced, the practice of centering prayer can be traced all the way to St. John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila. So there's a huge heritage there to explore. But I think it was Father Thomas Keating who summarized it in four R's that I personally use still in my practice when I find myself off the rail, so to speak. And the four R's of the practice are very simple, but not easy, is to resist no thought, react to no thought, retain no thought, and return to awareness. Return to the awareness that you are. And these words, for years and years, I simply followed the instruction. This is, this was my primary practice. And only recently, I recognize what those words mean. Those instructions finally took a root after all these years. And I recognize that the most important thing that one can do in practice is recognize who we are, not on the level of the thoughts, but on the level of awareness. And this is something that is very easy to miss. Even though I can guide us through awareness practice and everybody most likely will be able to connect with themselves of the level of awareness. The one modality that we train the most throughout our lives. is our thinking and the transition between being present, and as you said, going on a nature walk, tasting a chocolate, experiencing all those wonderful things that the life has to offer. The transition between being awareness that tastes and experiences life to thinking about the experience is so fluid. It's so flawless that we struggle to catch ourselves when that happens, simply because we train ourselves over the period of the entire life to do just that. So when you again, whether it's practice of centering prayer or mantra meditation or focusing on the breath, this is just the beginning of the road. This is the gateway that ultimately leads us to experience yourself from a different point of view. And I think something that is important to me and perhaps could be of value to the listeners and and everyone who goes through their cancer journey is the transformation that happens as we continue on this path. This is one, from my perspective at least, and and I want to share that. The one most important thing on this path is the transformation that happens as we, using mindfulness, pay attention to what is happening within us, within our mind, body, with our psyche along the way. So I'm not even even sure where we started this. What was the question? Clearly you see I'm lost in my own thinking, so maybe I should listen to myself from time to time and look in the mirror, like Michael Jackson. Start with the guy in the mirror.

Ivelisse Page:

I love it. No, I think it leads into the question that I wanted to ask you because, and you're absolutely right. I believe we are, again, just so busy in this world. And even as myself as a Christian for all these years, I've always had certain practices that I would do every morning. And when I had my last cancer diagnosis my spiritual director was saying, you know, I really want you to experience your faith in a different aspect. I want you to experience prayer in a different way and experience the Lord in a different way. And it was beautiful because I was able to go on those walks and I was looking for ways to see God, like you were saying, what am I smelling? What am I seeing? What am I feeling in the flowers? And, and really seeing creation as such a gift and a miracle. And then coming back and, and instead of saying prayers where I always, I'm always grateful or, or lifting up requests right, for healing or whatever it may be. She encouraged me to be quiet, to not even say a word kind of like you were saying. Instead of asking or being thankful and all these things which are good practices right she goes practice on trying to be quiet and see if you listen to his still small voice speaking to you and sometimes we miss it because we're either so busy or on our own agenda or asking or thanking so that was just such a beautiful thing and that reminded me when you were saying about really looking within ourselves and especially for cancer patients. And when you're talking about visualization, that's one of the key things that I did when I was sick. You know, you're saying what you're experiencing also, it ties into what your thoughts are, right? So, I was injecting that mistletoe into my abdomen and, and I actually in my mind, I pictured the cancer cells being destroyed by it. I pictured healthy cells within my body growing and energy and strength and all those things are powerful ways that we can use our minds and our bodies that were created to heal in order to move in that direction. And so what advice would you give to someone who's just beginning this mindfulness journey? They're hearing this today, and it may be for the first time, and especially someone dealing with a major illness like cancer.

Tomek Wyczesany:

Yeah, that's a, that's a very good question. Thank you. Before we jump into meditation and before we start getting the benefits that everybody raves about, my one suggestion, not necessarily advice, is to learn to relax. Do not worry about meditation. Do not worry about mindfulness. Learn to relax. The transformation that happens during the relaxation process, and you can use breathing methods, you can do, you can use any technique, you can do nature work, you can do any way you like, learn to relax, to give your body the chance to come back to the state of harmony. Even when I thought about it, even for people with cancer right now, as we speak, cancer is a very small part of the body. The vast majority of organs function beautifully, wonderfully. I, I taught biochemistry and studied chemistry throughout my life. And one of the wonders of what's happening in your body is the tapestry of myriads of processes that are mind blowing, that are happening right now within you. They just, they're very difficult to comprehend. And even for me, with my experience, when I look at it, it's absolutely mind boggling. And all these processes and more are happening within your body as we speak, even if you have a cancer diagnosis. So my question is, what, how can I support my body, internally, in the process of restoring the initial balance prior to the cancer diagnosis? What happened there and what has changed? And the process of knowing thyself includes those factors of recognizing what has changed in my physical health, mental health, spiritual health, before and now. And that's where mindfulness can be helpful. Sorry, what was your question again? Because I'm, I'm going off the rails once again.

Ivelisse Page:

No, that was excellent. I just said someone who's beginning their mindfulness journey, you know, especially dealing with something like cancer, what advice would you give them?

Tomek Wyczesany:

Yeah. So yeah, that's right. So back on track. So relaxation most of the people who listen to my recordings, to my meditations, they do not come there to necessarily explore themselves. They look for relief and this is advice that your body give you. That is very important. Come and experience relief. That is moving from dis ease into ease, from situation that is stressful, that we know I could describe here the, you know, hormonal regulation and your nervous system regulation that on the physiological level is described as stress. Moving you from that, that you can feel as a tension in your body, as a discomfort into a state where you feel more yourself. And again this is people say, well, I'm relaxed by sitting in front of TV or watching our screens. And we simply forgotten what actually being at ease and relaxed is. So I would suggest to start there. Because when our body and mind are in the state of ease and relaxation, our thinking takes very different course. And we think very differently. It is a scientific fact that when you stressed, your access to your brain, to your cognition. It's much more limited. It's millions of years of evolution took us there and realize that when you're in danger, thinking is not what's going to take you out of there. It's going to be either to fight or to fly, or to freeze. And we have that pre programmed in our body. So from that point of view, cognition and thinking and high emotions is not something that your body will allow you to focus. So the moment you move from the stress into ease, into relaxation, that's where the journey begins. That, that's where you can have greater ability to know thyself coming back to the initial health tip, right? It's very difficult to really consider even any form of practice when you in distress. So that's, that's a long answer to a very simple question.

Ivelisse Page:

Excellent. Well, Tomek, we're going to put your Insight Timer app in our links so that individuals can go to your website or download your app and to get benefits from the many different modalities that you have there for individuals to use. Before we close the podcast, is there anything that you would like to share that I didn't get a chance to ask you that you feel would be important for our audience?

Tomek Wyczesany:

Well, a small correction. I wish that InsightTimer was my app. It is not my app. It's an app with around 20, 000 teachers, other teachers that are also there. So, you can, as much as I would like to promote myself. There are many other wonderful teachers and musicians that can help you with that very process of relaxation. Or if you decide to listen to my meditations, you may find that there are a lot of them help you with the process of relaxation, but I think there is more emphasis on the contemplation and definitely transformation. And to answer your question. And the last thing I want to say to everybody who's on the cancer journey and all the listeners is to bring power that is so very often perceived as external back to yourself. And I'm not even saying that this is through mindfulness and meditation. This is simply through considering yourself and who you are right now in this very moment, regardless of your circumstances, regardless of the state of your health. And the fact, if you listening to this, it means that there's so much beauty in you and begin by realizing this very beauty that is already in you.

Ivelisse Page:

Wonderful. Thank you so much Tomek for getting up extra early this morning to join us all the way from Australia. It's such a blessing to have you and thank you for all the wonderful insight that you shared with us today on the podcast.

Tomek Wyczesany:

It is my pleasure and thank you so much for all your questions and for having me here.

Ivelisse Page:

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