Believe Big Podcast

80-Sasha Kalcheff-Korn - Realm of Caring: Cannabis and CBD in the Cancer Journey

• Ivelisse Page & Sasha Kalcheff-Korn • Season 3 • Episode 80

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Today's podcast episode, is all about the healing potential of cannabis and CBD in cancer care and other chronic illnesses.  We dive deep into how these natural therapies may help alleviate pain, reduce inflammation, and improve overall quality of life, especially when integrated into a comprehensive treatment plan.

Join me as I interview Sasha Kalcheff-Korn from Realm of Caring.   Sasha will share personal stories, and break down the science behind CBD's role in supporting wellness.

Whether you're curious about alternative options or actively seeking ways to complement conventional care, this podcast offers valuable insights and practical tips.

Learn more about Sasha and Realm of Caring:
https://realmofcaring.org/about/who-we-are/

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Ivelisse Page:

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page, and it's always a pleasure to be with you. Today we will be discussing the role of cannabis in oncology. Sasha Kalchev Korn's background in nonprofits and education led her in the role of Realm of Caring. Long interested in the intersection between cannabis legalization and human rights, both stateside and abroad, Sasha is passionate about connecting individuals to effective plant based methodologies for medicine and care. In her current role, Sasha serves as the executive director for Realm of Caring, keeping internal teams, clients, and community at large educated on industry developments and scientific advancements through educational and research initiatives, participating in state and federal level advocacy efforts, and leading day to day operations. When not at work, Sasha enjoys spending time with her family, running, and discovering new recipes to try out or eat at restaurants. Welcome to the show, Sasha.

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me and having Realm of Caring here.

Ivelisse Page:

We always like to start the podcast with our guest's favorite health tip. So what would be yours?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

I think that my favorite health tip is try more than one thing because it's never going to be one miracle pill, one miracle diet. It's going to be a whole host of things and together that is going to advance your health.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. I like that holistic approach. That's what we talk about every day. I love it. I love it. Can you tell us a little bit about your role, a little more specifically in Realm of Caring and what inspired you to get involved?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Oh yeah, absolutely. So my journey to Realm of Caring really started back in around 2013. I was moved to Colorado from New York City and I was in a master's program at University of Denver. And I took a job as an ABA therapist. So providing therapy to autistic kiddos. When I had moved here and one of the families that I worked for as an ABA therapist, was one of the families that had moved out to Colorado, one of the medical refugees who were seeking cannabis specifically high CBD, because she had suffered from seizures as a result of epilepsy. So she didn't have autism, but she did therapy worked for her. So I found her. And so her mom was one of the volunteers to help get Realm of Caring up and running in 2013 when they were just getting started. And so I went into education for a while. And then after I had my son, I just realized that it was no quality of life, being in education, being a teacher. And so I wanted to get back into nonprofit work, which what I had done prior. And I wanted to be in education still, and a job popped up for Realm of Caring. So it was very fate-like that a job just popped up. And so I applied and I started as a care specialist here in 2019. But I had also in my master's program, I was my track was human rights. And so I had the opportunity to take courses on the consequences of the war on drugs and understanding women's roles in those movements and as a, a mother myself, it really spoke to me and fighting for your child's access to medicine and what Realm of Caring had been doing. And so I started working here and I've been here ever since. And I just, I love the work and I love what we do.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah. I, I recently found out about you all. And, interestingly enough, we had been, sharing with patients, when they were looking for cannabis and, the Charlotte's Web, which, is the very pure form that can be used for oncology. And we're going to kind of discuss that today because all cannabis is not the same. There's so many different things to really be cautious of and be aware of. And so I'm so grateful that you're on to really shed light on these aspects so that people are well educated when it comes to this area, especially in the oncology side. So let's start here for those people who never heard of cannabis. I'm not sure how they couldn't, but they might not have heard about cannabis. So what is cannabis and what are the primary benefits for cancer patients according to current research?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Sure. Cannabis has a few different strains. So we have cannabis sativa and cannabis indica. So these are plants that grow in nature. They're really, really great plants, but the cannabis, the hemp plants they're a remedial crop. So they absorb the toxins from the soil. They can be produced into cotton and fiber, and they have health benefits in their seeds on their own. But then the plant can be extracted or formulas can be extracted from the plant to separate cannabinoids. So the plant itself has over 400 different compounds and over 100 different cannabinoids. So when we're talking cannabinoids, that's cannabidiol, your CBD, that's delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol, that's THC. So we have these different cannabinoids that are extracted that have these an abundance of health benefits. But then also you have these terpenes and flavonoids that are also found in other plants that have benefits as well. So you have all of these different compounds that have a lot of different health benefits in just one package. Of course it has been illegal for decades because of the psychoactive component of the THC. But I say that, but there is a way to consume it without feeling the intoxicating effects. And so that's what research is trying to really pinpoint. What's the dose, what's the amount somebody can take without feeling intoxicating, because there are benefits to all these different cannabinoids. And then you have your non intoxicating ones, like CBD. Sorry, go ahead.

Ivelisse Page:

No, yeah I was doing a little research and it says, that hemp CBD, has less THC, and it's different from, say, cannabis from the actual marijuana plant that has the THC. And it has less CBD. So can you explain the difference? Because a lot of people just think it's all one.

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Of course, yes. So the hemp plant so in 2018, we had the farm bill that removed the definition of hemp from marijuana. And so the hemp plant has a threshold of 0. 3% THC by dry weight. And so it has very small amounts of THC in there. It is called a hemp plant, but it is also, it's a cannabis sativa is the full name of it. And it is all still considered cannabis, but we use, hemp and marijuana to kind of distinguish the two. Marijuana, you would think more intoxicating, hemp is non intoxicating. And so when we're talking the products that are available commercially to purchase, that are federally legal. They don't have a quantity of THC that is intended to get somebody high. It's very small amounts. And so that's where CBD products come from and that's how they differ.

Ivelisse Page:

Okay. Yes. So individuals are able to purchase cannabis with different levels of THC. Can you explain THC's role?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Yes. And this goes back to the benefits too, right? And I didn't actually touch on that. So a lot of the, the most researched cannabinoids would be your THC and your CBD because they are considered major cannabinoids. They are found abundantly in these plants, and so they're more easy, easily researched because they can be more easily extracted in large quantities. And so the benefits, some of the most notable ones, we have anti inflammatory, anti oxidant, And for, if we're considering the whole holistic wellness and how those can help a multitude of ailments, anti-inflammatory, and antioxidant can, can do so much. But we also have a sleep improvement and pain improvement, anti-anxiety, anti depression or antiemetic. And so we have all these great benefits. And then, so THC, just as CBD does, it has really great potential when it comes to anti inflammatory, oxidative stress, and helping someone to improve potentially their sleep or pain. When we're talking chronic pain, or really debilitating conditions, sometimes that's where THC really shines, because it does pack a punch, it does have a lot of benefits. But, it's just whenever you purchase it or consume it, you just want to have a really good plan in place because higher levels can cause intoxication. You can get those psychoactive effects. So you just want to approach it with the start low and go slow and and have someone to help you along the way for support.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. And so are there particular types of cancer that respond better to cannabis treatment?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

That's a really great question. And when it comes to cancer specifics, there have been separate types that have been researched, but overall anti cancer potential of the cannabis plant is anti tumor, anti proliferative. So helping to spread this helping to stop the spread of cancer cells from getting into tissue or from multiplying within the body helping to decrease tumor size or inhibit tumor growth. And so that has that translates to a lot of different diagnoses, of course. And I think what we're starting to see a little bit more of is the cancer specifics. So when it's used for a specific cancer type. I believe one of the first studies that showed the, the anti tumor growth activity was in 1975 and that was for Lewis Lung Carcinoma. So you have these different types that it's being studied with and it's going to be really these mass observational research studies that happen where people can self report what they're using it for so we can start to accumulate more and more data on specific cancer types. That will influence more of those clinical trials to show how it can specifically help different cancer types.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. And you're doing a research currently with Johns Hopkins as well. And so can you share a little bit about that research and what you're doing?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Yes, absolutely. So we have two different studies that we're working on with Johns Hopkins right now. The first one we started in 2015. So this is when our founders recognized that the importance of research, if policy was going to change, bridging that gap between the medical and scientific community and then policy. And started working with Johns Hopkins, opened up this observational research registry in 2016 that anybody with internet access could join. So they're just self reporting how they're using cannabis in their everyday lives. No clinical trials, nothing is influenced, just, pure anecdotal reports. So we've had that ongoing study where we've published four papers based off of that data. It's going to continue to go on and on so we can start to accumulate more. And then we have this other project that was funded by NIH. The award went to Hopkins. And we are working alongside of them as a data coordination center. So we'll help with participant recruitment, providing compensation to participants, and just getting the word out there about the research. And so this is again, another observational study and sort of a follow up to our first study together.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, that's wonderful. Yeah. We need more and more research so that people are more aware of the benefits of products like cannabis and mistletoe therapy. You touched on it a little bit earlier when you said that many times that hemp plant is put into soil to remove toxins from it, which should be a really like a little yellow flag to people when they're purchasing cannabis, what to look out for. Can you share about why it's so important to really find credible products, especially when dealing with cancer?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Oh, absolutely. So especially for our immune sensitive and medically sensitive populations, it's really, we can't stress enough how much the quality of your product matters. Just like you said, hemp, it is a remedial crop. It will absorb anything in the soil. That's why they planted outside of Chernobyl to help to remove some of the radioactive components that are still there. But if the soil is not pure, then you could have pesticides or residual solvents, heavy metals that are being absorbed into the plant. So you want to ensure that the product that you're receiving has a certificate of analysis that states that it's been tested for all of these materials that can be toxic to your body and that it was cleared for all of those materials. You also want to be sure that what it says on the label is what's in the product. There's been a few different studies that journalists have done where they've gone to dispensaries or health food stores or purchased online a bunch of different hemp products and then they tested them. And small percentages of those products actually have any CBD in them at all. A lot of them is just hemp oil, which has its own benefits, but it's not going to do what you think it's going to do. If you're looking for a CBD or THC to to provide benefit to you. And so we really stress understanding the product company that you're purchasing from. Also, is this a consistent product? So if I receive one batch, the next batch I receive will have the same levels of cannabinoids and terpenes. Because if we make little tiny changes in our therapy, that could disrupt everything. So we really want to be consistent and we want to know that we're buying from a reputable company that's going to be around. If you find something that works, you want to be able to stick with it. And so if a company is just you know, they're one day gone the next, and then you're having to source a new product, it can become pretty difficult.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, so what certifications and what things should they be looking at to make sure that what is inside the bottle is actually inside the bottle?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Of course. So the certificate of analysis is going to be one. A lot of companies will have it available on their website, but you want to be sure that it's up to date, that they're not showing a batch number from two years ago. If you want to have a batch number that matches your bottle batch. And so it'll be a certificate of analysis, it should be available on the website, or you should be able to reach out to their customer support team for one. And it will show that it's been tested for the heavy metals, pesticides, any residual solvents, but that it also shows a percentage or milligram count of the cannabinoids that are in the bottle that you have. So and also you want to call their, maybe give them a call or send them an email and see if you get a response from their team. You want somebody who's going to be responsive to you if you do have questions about your product. And that they just present themselves well and on their website. And if you ever have questions, you can call Realm of Caring, because that's what we help people do is to find quality products and go through the checklist of things that they can look for or help them understand, Oh, maybe we want to purchase from this company versus this one, or just navigate that with people.

Ivelisse Page:

Are there one or two that you say for sure, like, these are ones that we absolutely are confident in?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Yeah, we do have a few supported brands. And so currently Charlotte's Web, 55 Plus, Aspen Green, New Me, some of these are great companies that we've been working with for a long time. Peaceful Roads has a topical as far as CBD companies go. And so we vet them ourselves. We go through a checklist of a full audit on our end. And then so that way we can recommend them to people that we're working with and say, this is a trustworthy company.

Ivelisse Page:

Okay, we appreciate that and we'll put that in the show notes and a link so that people can connect with you if they have questions about ones that they're looking at themselves. Are there any potential side effects or interactions that cancer patients should be aware of when using cannabis?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Yes, and this is where it's really important to bring in a medical team and we understand it's really difficult to find support from a medical team because this is simply just something that's not, it's not very available. It's not available knowledge. in medicine right now, right? And so there can be interactions with different medications that you might be taking. It is, CBD itself is metabolized by a lot of the same enzymes that other medications are metabolized by. And so there could be some spacing involved that you want to consider, but there's also been a lot of research to support using cannabis as an adjunct therapy to conventional treatments and actually helping to potentially improve the treatment's efficacy while decreasing the side effects that the treatments might cause. Um, So it can be a friend when it comes to cannabis therapy. And but trying to be transparent with the doctor is great. We also do that too. We help to provide resources and information so that you feel confident. So that way, when you go to speak with your medical team about wanting to use cannabis that you'll have the tools to, to speak with them about it because everybody should be involved. So that way you can ensure that you're being safe about it all.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, I completely agree. It's so important to have that team approach and really make sure that everyone knows and is on board so that you get the best care possible and there aren't any surprises. Can you share any success stories or experiences from cancer patients who have used cannabis?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Yes. One of my early on when I was a care specialist, one of my early on success stories was a woman who had a colon cancer and she was actually using a really concentrated cannabis oil and making it into suppositories. to bypass the head high effects, the intoxicating effects. So she would make at home suppositories. And eventually her cancer did go into remission. She was also doing conventional treatment. So it was, a whole holistic approach. She was just trying everything possible and getting as close to the source as possible. But a lot of our other success stories that we get of people calling in, a lot of it is, just helping: oh, I can eat again. I was going through chemotherapy and I was wasting away, and now I can eat again. A lot of caregivers who are helping their elderly parents with it as just an adjunct therapy to their conventional treatment just to help with the side effects to help them sleep and not feel so nauseous. And that's kind of what we know is accepted when it comes to cannabis and cancer. We've accepted that it can help with anti nausea, it can help as an appetite stimulant. But if we take it that step farther and we say, okay, this is, it's not just a support, it's a medicine, then it can open up all these other possibilities and it could, we can look at it seriously as an anti inflammatory an anti proliferative for decreasing pain and increasing sleep. So I think we're, we're getting to that point of wider acceptance. But it's good to see that people are calling more, and they're more interested in that side of things.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, there's so much power in plant medicine. I mean, we see it every day, in dealing with mistletoe therapy. And this is just another one of God's, medicines that really have the opportunity and the ability to not only help with quality of life, but the quantity of life in a patient. And we've been really focusing and narrowing in on cancer, but what other ways have you seen cannabis effective besides cancer?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Oh, yes. So our top reasons why people call are probably epilepsy, anxiety, sleep disturbances, chronic pain. Those are among the top ones and so we see a lot of benefit when it comes to that. So it's just, kind of that aid for the overall well being. So if you can potentially increase the amount of hours that you're sleeping or decrease the amount of times you're waking up in the middle of the night, then you're improving your anxiety throughout the day. It's just all that cyclical. And if you can improve your pain, you can improve this. And so it's a whole host of things. And when someone calls and they say, I'm having trouble with sleep and we'll say to them, okay what, what else is going on? What's impacting the sleep? And oh, it's the pain or it's the depression or the anxiety or whatever it might be. And we're seeing benefits when it comes to that, and it shows up in kind of weird, weird ways too, you might not notice it right away. You might not say, Oh, all of a sudden I feel fantastic, but you might notice one day like, Oh, I actually didn't get nervous when I was in this social situation. Or we've had parents with kids with autism who call and they'll say, Oh, my daughter just who has autism and is not very verbal. She asked if she could be done with her dinner, which is I'm done with dinner. And that's when they knew, oh, this is actually doing something. This is helping. So it's one of those things where you got to go into it with the expectation of, you might not be some big moment where, oh my gosh, it's, it's helping, but just tracking those little benefits along the way.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. When I moved here to Colorado, there's some, the legalities are different in, in every state and it is legal here in Colorado and Fort Collins, people are not allowed to use it in public. But, in their own homes, they're, they're able to, I think in Denver, they are allowed to. But, I've just noticed, I'm always working on my sleep and how can I really maximize my sleep and make sure that the environment that I'm surrounding myself with, whether it's blue light or EMFs and wifi. And there's so many aspects that really affect our sleep like you were sharing. And one of the things that I found here locally at a store that really had a good quality hemp sleep salve is what they called it. And it's amazing. And I was, at first a little leery about it, but this one did not have the THC or very, very minimal. But I put the sleep salve on the bottoms of my feet at night, especially when I travel, I bring it with me when I'm not in my environment, sleep haven at home. And it is amazing how it helps to relax, how it helps me to sleep longer and deeper and not wake up like you're saying. So there are things for people to try, to start off with so that they can kind of see the benefits of it. I have friends who deal with arthritis in their hands. And as aging, you have more aches and pains and having lotions with that CBD on and that can really, or massages that are done with CBD can really be healing and easing the aches and pains and the inflammation, like you're saying. So I've seen it firsthand, not as far as cancer side, but as far as sleep and pain and it's really made a tremendous difference.

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

That's so great. I'm glad you shared that because there are cannabinoid receptors in our skin cells and our inner skin. And so you can absorb through that way. And that's kind of, it's a, it's an entry point. If someone was nervous about starting hemp or CBD. Starting with just a topical and also just the, getting in the ritual of the reflexology, massaging it into your feet and taking that time of calmness, all of these things can contribute to your overall wellness and I think that's a great first step for somebody.

Ivelisse Page:

So what does the current legal landscape look like? I shared about Colorado, but in other areas for the use of cannabis and CBD in cancer treatment and beyond?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

It changes every day, especially right now, because we are in the midst of a legislative session. And it's unfortunate because we do see a pullback on a lot of a lot of regulations. There's still a lot of fear behind CBD use just because it has those minimal amounts of THC. So you still have some groups some prohibitionist groups or others who are focused on getting CBD products into dispensaries and off the shelves because they're afraid that their child's going to go and buy a$200 dollar bottle of a tincture and then, and maybe get a buzz. I don't know. But so we still have a lot of people who are afraid of the plant and even with CBD and reputable safe products out there. So CBD is one that comes under fire probably most often. There is a big push, of course, for cannabis use, especially when it comes to specific conditions and disease states. But the idea that we might be on the path to moving cannabis to a Schedule 3 from a Schedule 1 is very promising because it does for the first time have the federal government saying this does have medicinal value and that's what's most important and that's what patients need to help to see that change come their way. We have a ton of research we're accumulating. This allows for even more research to start happening and then making those pushes for acceptance of patient use of of cannabis for debilitating conditions. And yeah, it's, it gets weird state to state because of course that's just how our government is run. Things can change at the federal level, doesn't mean it will change at the state level. And so that's something that we always want to help people with too, if they're ever concerned with is this, can I buy or use this in my zip code and then calling us and we can help them navigate that because it can be pretty overwhelming. And just, again, scary. You never know if you tell the wrong person, if they're going to report you to CPS or it's, I laugh, but it's a real a real problem.

Ivelisse Page:

And you shared it a minute ago. Can you share with our audience what the difference is between a Schedule 1 drug versus a Schedule 3?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

The Schedule 1 will mean that it has no medical value. And and we know cannabis does, and so moving to Schedule 3 would put it in a category where it would show. So just at a high level, that would be the biggest difference.

Ivelisse Page:

That's great. I can't believe that our time has already come to a close, but is there anything that I didn't ask you, that you think would be really helpful for our audience to be aware of when it comes to cannabis and cancer, or cannabis in general?

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

I would say as far as awareness, if some people know personally that cannabis helps and works for them, and so they advocate for it, and there's some people who don't either need it because they're in great health, or they're using alternative therapies that are helping but I would say as far as awareness, just advocating for those people who need it, and having empathy for those people who are finding plant based therapies and alternative therapies to be beneficial to them. It doesn't bother you if they're using it, right? It doesn't affect you, but if it can help them, advocate for that person and just try and put yourself in their position. Imagine a mom who has gone through every single pharmaceutical for their child and they're in hospice receiving palliative care and then they find cannabis as a solution and it saves their kid's life. Just put yourself in that position and think about their story whenever you go to vote or you write letters into your representatives or your state senators who are the ones who are making decisions about our access to these plant based therapies.

Ivelisse Page:

Thank you so much, Sasha. Thank you for your knowledge, for your wisdom, for being on our show today. We really appreciate you educating us more on cannabis itself. So thank you.

Sasha Kalcheff-Korn:

Thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure.

Okay.

Ivelisse Page:

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