Believe Big Podcast

93-Dr. Katie Deming - Healing From Emotional Trauma

• Ivelisse Page & Dr. Katie Deming • Season 3 • Episode 93

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What if your emotional wounds are impacting your physical health more than you realize? 

In this episode of the Believe Big Podcast, Dr. Katie Deming, a former radiation oncologist turned conscious healer, shares her powerful journey of transformation and why emotional healing is a critical part of cancer recovery. She reveals groundbreaking insights into how trauma can influence disease, the unexpected role of detoxification, and cutting-edge techniques like PSYCH-K and emotional release work. 

If you've ever wondered how emotions and illness are connected—or how to begin healing on a deeper level—this conversation is a must-listen. 

Learn more about Dr. Katie Deming at

https://www.katiedeming.com/

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Ivelisse Page:

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe.\Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and it's an honor to spend this time with you. Today, we welcome to the podcast Dr. Katie Deming to talk about healing from emotional trauma. Dr. Katie is a former radiation oncologist and healthcare leader, inventor and TEDx speaker, who is transcending the boundaries of conventional and integrative medicine to create a new paradigm of cancer prevention treatment. And post-treatment healing. Today we are gonna learn a little bit about Dr. Katie's personal story, which includes how a shared death experience transformed her perspective and led her to leave Western medicine at the height of her thriving career as a radiation oncologist and health leader at one of the largest healthcare organizations. Dr. Katie's current method center on helping those with cancer to detoxify and nourish their full physical, mental, and emotional and spiritual selves so they can activate their body's innate ability to heal. Welcome to the show, Dr. Deming.

Dr. Katie Deming:

Thank you so much. It's my pleasure to be here.

Ivelisse Page:

We always like to start the podcast with our guest favorite health tip. Do you have one that you could share with us?

Dr. Katie Deming:

My favorite health tip would be, I think, detoxification. I think in today's world doing sauna. So infrared sauna is probably like my favorite detox, um, tip I would say as someone like it's my mentor often says it's like a refrigerator in 2025. Everyone should have access to using a sauna and, I use mine every day. It feels so good, but it's also so important for detoxifying our bodies.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. I I love mine too. I, I have a Sunlighten in one and I know people ask, so what kind do you have?

Dr. Katie Deming:

I have a Health Mate Enrich 2.

Ivelisse Page:

Okay. Okay. Good to know. Um, so what inspired your transition from a conventional radiation oncologist?

Dr. Katie Deming:

Sure. So I practiced radiation oncology for 20 years, also served as a healthcare leader, and I was, you know, mid-career, really kind of just doing my thing. And in 2019 I started to have this feeling inside that something wasn't right. And I also just before I started to really sense that like something wasn't right, in 2018, I was at a meditation retreat and I heard the parable of the river and the story goes something like this. There's a village perched along the side of a river, and one day the villagers noticed a body, someone drowning in the river. So they sent out someone to save them, pulled them to safety, and then the next day they noticed two people drowning in the river. So they sent two villagers out to save the people. And then the next day, four and eight and 16, and it kept doubling every day. So the villagers organized themselves and created these very elaborate rescue systems, and they became very good at rescuing people off of the river. And the village elders praised the villagers for such good work that they were doing of rescuing all of these people. When I heard this parable, I just looked at my friend and colleague. I happen to be at this event with a GYN oncologist, who's one of my best friends, and I said to her, I said, this is Western Oncology. This is us. Like we are just glorified rescue workers on this river and pulling people out and what the heck is going on upstream? We're seeing younger and younger women in our practices and people are getting sicker and sicker, and I have no idea what's getting them here. Like we're, and then we're putting'em on dry land, but we don't really know what happened in the first place. And so then I'm not sure that they're not gonna fall back in the river. And so that had happened I think in like 2018. I heard that story and I was like. Wow. Like nobody's asking the question of what is wrong? Like why are so many more people getting sick and why are younger and younger people getting cancer? And then in 2019, I started to have this feeling like I wasn't supposed to be practicing radiation oncology, which made no sense because I had trained until I was 32 years old and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to become a radiation oncologist and actually loved what I did. Like I love taking care of patients. I've cared for over 5,000 people in, in as a radiation oncologist, mostly women. I specialize in breast and gynecologic cancer, but. Anyway, I was getting this message like, you're not supposed to be a radiation oncologist. And I was telling my husband, my husband was like, well, maybe something's wrong with you because if you look at your life, you're good at what you do. You do meaningful work. You care for people with cancer. You know, it's like when people say, that's meaningful work, you know, and he's like, you're, you know, you're good at it. Your colleagues love you. Your patients love you. You make a good living. You have everything that you could want. Maybe there's something wrong with you. If you are not happy with all of that, and now I know that's obviously not, that's not what was going on, but it, I internalized that for a little bit and I was like, oh, maybe there's something wrong with me. Maybe I'm never gonna be happy and maybe I need to address that, about why am I not happy? But then in 2020. I had something called a shared death experience, and this is very similar to a near-death experience, but it can happen to healthcare professionals who are at the scene where someone else dies and the healthcare professional or the person who is at the scene can have a metaphysical experience, much like a near death experience, but without having their heart stop and you know, really having that going through some kind of medical crisis, and that happened to me in the fall of 2020 and, I saw, you know, I felt the love and the light and the, you know, just overwhelming beauty of what is outside this reality. But when I came back, I knew I had to leave. I was like, okay, no longer is this just like a niggling feeling. This is like, I know that I need to leave. And then I also know that because I've spent so much time around death, like I've cared for so many patients who have died, 40% of my practice was palliative. So I've spent a lot of time with people who are facing the end of their life, and I know that the biggest regret that people have is that I wasn't true to myself, that I didn't live a life that was authentic to me. I did what everyone else told me, so I knew that if I didn't follow this, that I would regret it at the end of my life. And I wasn't willing to do that regardless of whether my husband was on board or anyone else. And it did end up unraveling my life. I ended up getting a divorce and, you know, having to sell everything to move through that. But, um, it was just really clear that needed to happen. That was the, you know, what what I was meant to do, even though it wasn't clear, you know, what I was gonna move into, it was clear what I, I shouldn't be doing.

Ivelisse Page:

Hmm. What a beautiful story and I, I think it just adds to when we take those moments of quiet like you were at a meditation retreat and how God spoke to you in that way, through that parable. I think so many times we're so busy in our lives and we're running from one thing to the next that we don't take time to listen and to, to look within and to hear and to open our hearts to what a difference in our life can be or a change that could be coming to the surface. And so what a brave thing, you know, that you did in stepping outside of what you've always known, to do something that was completely different, but you know, that you were called to do. So. That's just an amazing story. Um, you talk about, you know, the body's innate ability to heal, you know? And I'm sure with all the patients that you've worked with since you've begun this work, how did you come to believe in this concept though, through your work with cancer patients? Like, you you knew you had to do this, but then once you started, how did you know that this concept had this healing power to heal these emotional traumas that people were dealing with.

Dr. Katie Deming:

Yeah. Well, you know, I didn't know, I, I didn't know when I left what I was gonna do, and I actually didn't, you know, I thought, I'm like, do I, you know, just become like, you know, train in something else? And I, and ultimately I was led that, no, you know, don't go do any additional training. Don't go indoctrinated into another system. You know, you need to just explore. And so what I started doing was started exploring what makes us well. You know, like, because everything in western medicine that I had been taught about was disease state. So we learned pathophysiology in medicine, which is the diseased state of the body, and then you learn how to use pharmaceuticals, or in my case, radiation to fix those problems, but from a very superficial level of just like basically what is the physical problem we're seeing and how can we use something to make that go away, not actually looking for what is the underlying cause of it. And so I said, if I know so much about that. What do I know about what makes the body well? Because actually, like, really what I wanna do is help people get well and stay well. And so I started really looking into what makes us well. And you know, um, healing is bringing wholeness back to the body. That is the definition of healing and wholeness comes when we address all of the aspects of a human being, right? Because. I'm healing humans. You know, there are other people who are healing animals, but in a human being, it's physical, it's emotional, it's mental, and it's spiritual, and you need all of that. That is what healing is, is restoring wholeness to the being. And as I started digging into, you know, all of these aspects, the one part that really caught my attention was emotions and healing, because I had been taught nothing about that, but yet, in my practice for a long time I was the only female in my practice and so I was like a magnet for anyone, woman who didn't wanna see a male practitioner or had a history of trauma. And I had a lot, a lot of clients who had history of trauma because I was, they felt safe with a woman. And so, I was curious about that from before. But then when I stepped out and I started looking at, the first study that really caught my attention was the ACE study. That's Adverse Childhood Event study, and that's a longitudinal study that took children and they looked at the number of adverse childhood events that they had in their childhood, and then they followed them into adulthood to see what their health status was. An adverse childhood event is defined as any kind of trauma. So it could be divorce of parents, it could be a parent with an addiction, it could be a parent who's incarcerated, could be sexual abuse, could be physical abuse, could be neglect. So there are a lot of different things that can fall in that category. But what this study found, and this was a big study, thousands of children over, you know, many, many years, and what they found was the higher the ACE score, the higher the incidence of cancer, cardiovascular disease, lung disease, diabetes, addiction. You know, and addiction you might say, well, that makes sense as like a coping. But even if you took out the addiction piece, these children still had a very high risk of developing conditions that we would normally say are genetically based, right? Like cancer, for example. And so that caught my attention. And then if you look at the radical remission data from Kelly Turner, there are 10 things. You know, initially her list was nine things that. People who cure themselves without any conventional treatment or without conventional treatment that you would expect to cure their illness. They had 10 things in common. And of course, these are not causative, right? We don't, there's just a correlation between these, um, things that they did and healing themselves. But two of them have to do with emotions. One of'em is releasing past trauma, and the second is cultivating positive emotions. And so with those two things together. It start to make me really think about the connection of emotions and illness and then also with my experience of having so many people with trauma in my practice that I knew there was some connection there. So that's kind, that's actually what's started me down this path of looking at emotions as part of the process of healing cancer.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, I, that's so amazing to me. You know, we so focus in our world, whether conventional or even in integrative medicine on the physical sides, right? Whether it's doing your saunas or whether doing organic foods. All those things are important, like Dr. Turner shared. But you mentioned something that really doesn't get talked a lot about, which is our emotions and those childhood traumas and how important it is for us to, sometimes they're unconscious and we don't even realize that they're there. And so it's so important that that release comes, because I think she said that when your body is caught in this fight or flight stage, your body can't heal, which of course impacts, you know, cancer patients. So what have you found have been the biggest misconceptions about emotional healing that you encounter in the work that you do?

Dr. Katie Deming:

Well, number one, when I first started saying this, people would get really mad at me. Like, I have these women who had followed me, you know, um, on social media when I was practicing traditional Western medicine. And they would be like, now you're blaming me. You're saying it's my fault. And, you know, all this stuff. And, and nothing could be further from the truth, but I found people get really triggered when you start talking about emotions related to cancer, like somehow I'm saying that it's someone's fault that, that their cancer may be related to emotions, but we live in a traumatic world. I mean, almost everyone has had some form of trauma. If you look at the ACE list, I mean, I would be surprised if everyone doesn't have at least one of those. And so, um, I find that people can be triggered, but that I also realize that those are not my people. Those are not the people that I'm meant to help. The ones that are meant to help are like, I know something is off here and that there's some, you know, connection between the things that I've experienced and my illness and are interested in diving into that. So I've kind of gotten a thicker skin and I'm just like, it's okay. You don't have to agree with me. I'm just here to say that this is also a contributor to physical illness. So that's the biggest thing is I think people don't wanna see it. The second thing is that people think that, oh, that means that I need to go into therapy and I need to talk about this and we need to like dig all this stuff up and, and actually that I think is a big misconception and I don't recommend talk therapy. I'm not saying there's not a place for talk therapy, but when you have someone who is sick with cancer and you need to heal emotional trauma and help them become more fluid with their emotions. You don't want to dig things up because that's actually going to put them into a fight or flight, and you're basically just picking the wound and making it worse when they're already afraid and experiencing now another emotional trauma of the illness, right, of being diagnosed with cancer. And so I tend to use techniques that are addressing the subconscious because emotional trauma is stored in our subconscious. And those techniques allow you to release the trauma without having to go into it and lighten people. So one of the techniques that's been the most effective in my practice is psych K, and that's spelled P-S-Y-C-H, and then the letter K. And that for me, there are other techniques that also address the subconscious that are, um, techniques. So emotion code is another one that release past trauma through, um, the subconscious and then like, there's EMDR and um, tapping. Those are also ways to help address that. But what I love about PSYCH-K is that someone can do one session and feel different and lighter. Like I don't do it myself. So my practice is so busy and I'm, I'm not just addressing the emotional, I'm really looking at the whole, you know, looking at their nutrition and stuff. Because actually you can't do the emotional healing if someone's not eating the right food and grounded and really, you know, has good nutritional status. But, um, because I'm doing all of the pieces, I refer out for PSYCH K or actually now I have a master PSYCH K facillitator who teaches PSYCH K workshops to my people so that they can have the skills themselves so they can fish themselves and help themselves. But anyway, what I love about PSYCH K is that it's, um, it people will do one session and then they feel lighter.

Ivelisse Page:

So it, for those of us who don't know who, what PSYCH K is, or M-D-R-E-M-D-R or tapping, can you just share really briefly what those techniques are so that people who aren't, haven't heard those before can kind of understand what you mean by them?

Dr. Katie Deming:

Sure. So, um, a Emotion Code is one, um, type of subconscious work where they use magnets to help. Basically they access the, um, you do it with a practitioner who's trained in this, and it's basically the subconscious speaks in a binary code. Like either it's a yes or it's a no, and they look for places in the history of where there appears to be something that needs to be released. And then they use magnets over the meridian that, um, releases that. So that's one technique. Um. EMDR. I'm not actually like I, I, I've never used it in my practice, but it's eye, it's related to eye movements and it's a type of therapy that can also help with, um, releasing trauma and, and getting at it in a way where it can be challenging just through talk therapy. And then tapping. So EFT Tapping is emotional freedom technique, and basically it's tapping on acupressure points to help change the physiology. So when you're in a state of stress, it can calm your physiology and activate the vagus nerve so you feel more calm. So E or tapping is less about releasing and more about coping in the moment, like it can be very helpful with coping with the fear or the stress that's come up with things. Um, and then PSYCH K is, PSYCH K is short for psychological kinesis, the K is for Kinesis, and k Kinesis just means body like the movement of the body. And the idea is that our brains, when we go into emotions, we tend to either go into our right brain or we tend to go into our left brain and we do both of these, but we like, you know, a feminine response to emotion is to go into the right brain. And then it feels like the emotions are gonna get so big, they're gonna overwhelm me. Right? And that can feel kind of, uh, hard. You don't wanna feel the feelings because it feels like it's gonna just swallow you up. And then the other approach is a more masculine approach, which is the left side of the brain, which is we just rationalize and we shut it off and just cut it off at its knees. And what happens is that when you experience emotions, when you have both sides of the brain connected and activated, you actually don't do either of those things. And you realize that, um, emotions are just a wave. So it's gonna come up. It's gonna crest and then it's gonna come down. And so you use certain positionings of the body to activate the corpus callosum, which is the part of the brain that connects the two hemispheres. And then in that position, they do emotional processing. So processing, fear, anger, jealousy, guilt, shame, all of those things. And actually it allows you to realize that it's safe to experience your emotions and that you can become fluid with them. So that is like really, really valuable, not only for past trauma, but also for experiencing a cancer diagnosis. And then the other thing that it does is that you can release past trauma through doing this whole brain positioning as well. So, PSYCH K it does three things really. It helps process emotional trauma and release it. It helps you become fluid in processing your emotions as they happen, which is super important. That's why I like to teach people the skills so that they have this, they can use it every day. And then the third piece is your programming the subconscious for what you want. Because most of us have been programmed into our subconscious, subconscious is programmed between ages zero and eight, and then by traumatic events. Even all of our parents are wellbeing, well-meaning, and I'm a parent and I'm well-meaning, and I'm sure I've programmed my children with some things that are not helpful. So all of us have things in our subconscious that maybe are not the most helpful for what we want to create in our lives, whether that's health or love or healthy relationships or whatever. And so PSYCH K is a very powerful way that you can reprogram the subconscious with the beliefs that you want, that healing is possible, that you know the relationships that you want, all of that stuff you can program in. So I love it because it addresses all three of those things which are essential for healing.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, I, I, I agree that it's so important and I think sometimes people don't want to address the emotions like you shared, but doing it in gentle ways like that, I think makes it, um, easier for, for a patient to be able to go through that process without it burdening them too much. But, you know, one term I just learned this week, which I feel is also very powerful, is that once you have gone through this healing, this emotional healing, um, you, you're considered a, a, um, a wounded healer, right? So you've healed those wounds that were so critical in your upbringing or from your past that you can walk in strength. Right? That's the hope in it. It's not so that you stay stuck, it's so that you move ahead with peace and joy and love and hope. So being a wounded healer, that's nothing to be shameful about or upset about. And like you said, being the most well-intentioned parents, there is gonna be some wounding in some way, but to know that there are these beautiful practices that can help us to heal is really exciting to hear how far this, um, side of care has gone. I know for me, in my own personal journey with cancer that forgiveness, you know, was a, played a huge role in, in my life. And, I feel like it's a conscious choice to let go and to move forward. It gave me such freedom and it wasn't necessarily reconciliation, right? It doesn't mean forgetting the pain or approving someone's behavior. Um, but it just meant such freedom once you can let go and move forward. Do you agree? What role do you feel forgiveness plays in emotional healing. And what are some ways that you teach people to begin the journey of letting that go?

Dr. Katie Deming:

Well, forgiveness is all for you, not for the person who did anything to you. Because regardless of what happened, whether it's right or wrong, um, when you are still holding on to something, you're the one who suffers because emotions hold frequency, right? So this comes to David Hawkins work from Power versus Force is a great book. If people are not familiar with that, that talks about this, the map of consciousness and that emotions have frequency in the low um vibration frequencies like, emotions like fear, shame, anger. All of those are where illness is created in the body and in the higher frequency, emotions like love and peace and joy, that's where healing occurs. And so when we hold on to something because someone has done something to us, it basically is contributing to our illness. And so what's interesting in my practice is I, I don't talk about forgiveness as much because when you do these processes, people become very neutral about what's happened to them. And then you don't have to look at it as, because sometimes people can be triggered by this concept of forgiveness, and I find that if we just help them to start process and be processing and becoming neutral about the events, then that's all that's needed. And then they can decide what they wanna do about addressing that relationship or whatever, but they've taken that burden off their back. And I think of emotional trauma or, you know, and that could be things that are perpetrated upon someone as rocks in your backpack, you've been carrying this backpack for your whole life, you don't even realize what's in there because you've just been carrying it around every single day. And trauma is like that. And so what I want people to do is just start taking the rocks out. Like let's just get the rocks out so you feel lighter. And then that's where the healing happens. And so even though I don't talk about forgiveness in this way, my clients get there because they become more neutral about the events that have happened to them. And then the other thing is, and you know, Colin Tipping talked about this radical forgiveness. I'm not sure if you're familiar with his work, he's now passed, but he talks about in radical forgiveness is this concept of that everything happens for a reason. Everything is happening for our higher good, whether that's from God or our higher self, that it's been put in our path to trigger something that is for our growth. And he says that when people are able to recognize that it makes forgiveness so much easier because you're really perceiving through things through a higher lens. You know, you're looking at things from a higher level, so.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, that's, that's beautiful. I just recently, and I think, I would love for you to share about this because I think sometimes when we do emotional work, we think, okay, check, I check that off. I forgave that person. I dealt with my past and, um, and then it bubbles up again. And I explain to those who are listening, the process of healing and that it's not linear, right? That it comes in waves like you were talking about, and that grieving is a process. So how do you share that with patients so that they don't become, um, hard on themselves, right? That they're not healing in, in the way that they thought they were going to, or it comes back, uh, that emotion comes back. So how do you work with patients so they don't feel badly about that?

Dr. Katie Deming:

Yeah. Well, number one is that we are emotional beings, so we are always gonna have emotions. And recognizing that it's not a problem when emotion comes up that maybe you thought that you dealt with, um, because it's just information. It's like, oh, there it is, you know? There it is. And now it gives you a chance to like be compassionate with yourself, not beat yourself up, that this has come up again. Actually, one of the things that I do in my practice that's been like. So profound on a physical level and also emotional, but also spiritual is fasting. So I do prolonged water fasting for cancer and I have a group who, they just finished 30 day water fast. And one of the women, you know, through this, fear, she was crippled by fear. I've been working with her for a year and she's been doing deep emotional work and fear has been her biggest thing. And when she came into the fast, it was still like had such a grip on her, but through the fast I. She had a lot of emotional clearing that happens because as you start to eliminate food, then, then the emotional stuff comes up and you have this beautiful emotional detoxing that happens. And so she was like, the fear had gone away and then she just, um, finished the fast and started refeeding. And yesterday she was on one of the calls and she said, you know, I woke up this morning and I was afraid. And I was so mad at myself, like, how could I go back into the fear, like after I just did a 30 day water fast? And I'm like, so I, I felt like it was done. And what I said to her is, I said, it's never done. Like until we take our last breath, we're always going to have those things that are our patterns that come up. And I said, it's just giving you information and showing you. And I'm still here. There's still stuff to work on. And just to be so proud of yourself for all the work that you've done, and to recognize it like you recognized it in the moment you're like, oh, okay, I'm back in the fear. And don't pull up the whip and start, you know, hitting yourself and beating yourself up for it. Just be curious. It's like, okay, what is this showing me now? I've worked through so many levels of this, like what's this next level of fear that's showing me? And I think when we show up with curiosity and compassion for ourselves in the healing process, that's where it feels easier. This work is not easy. You know, I say healing's, simple, but it's not easy. But it feels easier when we can be gentle and kind with ourselves and, and also just thinking about it like an onion. You're like an onion and you've just got endless layers and you're gonna do, you know, remove one, but then there's gonna be something else because. We are here to learn like this lifetime is to learn lessons and to evolve, and that if we didn't have lessons coming up, we wouldn't be growing and evolving. So I am always like, thank you for showing me my next level of how I can grow even more.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, I think that's such a powerful statement. We are like layers of an onion and as a, as a Christian, I seek empathy from the Lord because he is my vision of empathy, right? And how I should be empathetic as he is empathetic towards me. And I think that in our lives we're just so busy. And just like you were sharing about fasting and um, holding something back from us so things can be revealed. I also feel like things like stillness, solitude and silence can also help us to be hearing those things that we, we don't normally listen to with the noise of the world. And then in, in my life, that's when the Lord speaks to me and shares things that I need to grow in or that I need to work on and, um, and to not feel alone. So, you know, I really love all that you're doing, Katie. The work you're doing is just so meaningful. You are helping so many people in this vital work of emotional healing and I'm just so grateful that there are people like you out there that are doing this. And, um, I just really wanna thank you. We're gonna put your information in the notes of this podcast so that people can connect with you if they'd like to learn more or if they would like to learn from you. And so in closing, is there anything else that you would like to share that I didn't get a chance to ask you?

Dr. Katie Deming:

Well, I think that one of the things that I is important to know is that healing is always possible. Like it doesn't matter the stage. It doesn't matter how deep your trauma, it doesn't matter what you've been through. Healing is always, always available and possible, and I really truly believe that and I've seen it. So I think that's something that I would like people to know.

Ivelisse Page:

Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you so much for joining us. I know you're super busy and, uh, I know that everyone is gonna gain such valuable insight from this podcast, from you sharing. So thank you for taking the time today,

Dr. Katie Deming:

Ivelisse. Thank you so much for having me. It was my pleasure.

I.

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Ivelisse Page:

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