Believe Big Podcast

96-Petra Sovcov - Herbal Medicine and Its Ancient Beginnings

• Ivelisse Page & Petra Sovcov • Season 3 • Episode 96

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Discover the Power of Herbal Medicine in Cancer Care with Petra Sovcov

Join host Ivelisse Page on the Believe Big podcast as she welcomes Petra Sovcov, a clinical herbal therapist and Doctor of Natural Medicine based in Vancouver, BC. 

Founder of Healing House Natural Wellness, Petra brings decades of experience helping patients with chronic inflammatory conditions, including cancer and autoimmune diseases. In this enlightening episode, Petra shares practical, science-backed insights on how herbal remedies can complement conventional care to support detoxification, emotional health, and mental clarity.

Petra discusses:

  • Why it’s vital to slow down and make informed decisions in a health crisis
  • How to source high-quality herbs and read product labels wisely
  • Which herbs are most effective for detox and emotional balance
  • How herbal tinctures can enhance treatment outcomes

Whether you're a patient, caregiver, or health advocate, this episode is full of actionable tips to naturally strengthen your healing journey. 

🎧 Tune in, be inspired, and share this episode with someone who needs to know they’re not alone on the path to healing.

Learn more about Petra Sovcov at Healing House Natural Wellness

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Ivelisse Page:

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and it's an honor to spend this time with you. Today, you are in for a treat, our friend Petra Sovcov a clinical herbal therapist and Doctor of Natural Medicine, who's based in Vancouver, British Columbia is here with us today. She is the founder of Healing House Natural Wellness, and brings a decade of experience working with individuals facing chronic inflammatory conditions, including cancer and autoimmune disease. Petra also teaches herbal medicine studies and environmental nutrition at the Institute of Holistic Nutrition and is a contracted faculty member at the Wild Rose College where she teaches anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry. She's a graduate of Dominion Herbal College and is also the chair of the board for Herbalists Without Borders International, and she also runs the Vancouver's Chapters Free People's Clinic. Her passion lies in helping people reclaim their health through herbs, dietary changes, and sustainable living, always with a deep respect for the wisdom of both nature and science. When she's not in the clinic or in the classroom, Petra enjoys gardening, preserving heirloom plant varieties, and teaching others how sustainability begins right in our own backyards. Welcome to the podcast, Petra.

Petra Sovcov:

Thank you so much. I'm so excited and honored to be here.

Ivelisse Page:

Well, we always start our podcast with what our guest favorite health tip, and I'm sure you have many, but can you share one with us?

Petra Sovcov:

Yes. And you know, funny enough, it has nothing to do with herbal medicine or natural medicine.

Ivelisse Page:

Okay, I love it.

Petra Sovcov:

It's more about the realm in which that I work and support individuals. And when I'm working with individuals, oftentimes with more complicated scenarios, my best advice that I can offer is slow down. Go ahead and take the time even. Even when we're in a state where things seem very dire and very sudden and very life changing. Take the time to slow down and process the news before making decisions.

Ivelisse Page:

I love that.

Petra Sovcov:

That's my primary advice.

Ivelisse Page:

That's great advice,

Petra Sovcov:

Because these individuals are, whoever who, you know, many of us has been on on similar paths before, we're faced with making a decision right away, that may or may not alter end results. Right. And the other thing is, read your labels. Yes. As far as as as living and our nutrition goes, read your labels, make yourselves very, very familiar with those well-known carcinogens, endocrine disruptors, and neurotransmitter disruptors, because those also have a huge impact in the long-term prognosis of health because many of these chemicals are fat soluble, which mean they build up in the body over time until we reach toxic load and potentially a health crisis.

Ivelisse Page:

Very interesting. I didn't know that they were fat soluble. That's very interesting. So for those who are new to the concept of, um, herbal medicine, how would you describe it in your own words?

Petra Sovcov:

Oh, this is the foundation of all medicine on earth. Right. Human beings and plants have a partnership since creation. Our bodies know exactly how to use plants, um, whether it's through chemistry, whether it's digestion, whether it's the use for, for healing benefits. And so when I talk about herbal medicine and the roots of herbal medicine, what I will say is that, herbal medicine encompasses all cultures, all times, and all peoples. It is truly the people's medicine. And also current allopathic medicine sits on the shoulders of herbal medicine with over 70% of our strong pharmaceuticals coming from plant constituents.

Ivelisse Page:

Hmm. I didn't know 70% did. That's amazing.

Petra Sovcov:

It's a lot. It's a lot. A lot of our strong medications come from plants. It might not be in the whole sense. But many of the chemotherapy drugs come from various constituents and plants. Many of our very lifesaving cardiovascular medications come from plants. A lot of our, um, anti-inflammatories come from plants and so on and so forth.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. Yeah. And we, we know mistletoe therapy very well at Believe big. And it is such a powerful force when it comes to cancer treatments. And here in the United States, it's labeled under the homeopathic pharmacopia, not under the herbal medicine, which is why, uh, integrative practitioners can use it off-label for cancer. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But in, in general. A lot of people are sometimes concerned with using herbal medicines because their oncologist will say, don't use that. It might counteract what we're trying to do with the chemotherapy and you know, so what would be your best advice on one? Yes, it's safe to use or, or when should you pause? Yeah. in using it in conjunction with chemotherapy.

Petra Sovcov:

Yeah, so what I'll say first and foremost is unfortunately, most allopathic practitioners do not have adequate training in herbal medicine. I would love to change that in order for there to be a, a better partnership, and I would love to take the, the mystique and the shadow off of herbal medicine. And allow practitioners to kind of peek behind the scenes. So what I will say when it comes to issues with cancer and oncology and herbal medicine is, in my opinion, there is a lot more fear than facts. We of course, know that there are certain classes of herbs and certain classes of drugs that don't go hand in hand, and we've seen it clinically in individuals and human beings. However, a lot of the fear around herbal medicine is around something called theoretical concepts, or it's seen in test tubes or it's seen in animals, and we know that the human being is not a test tube or a rat, right? So when it comes to that, I generally will say to individuals, make yourself as educated as possible on the herbs that are being suggested. And allow for there to be guidance and to make a informed decision.

Ivelisse Page:

And so how would, how would someone find a qualified herbalist if they're not near you in Canada? What would be your best advice in order to find somebody that's trusted.

Petra Sovcov:

Yeah. So, you know, I. I thankfully work with individuals in Canada, the US, all over North America. I have clients also in, in Europe. Um, so grateful for that. But if they're looking to see someone one-on-one in office, there are some wonderful, wonderful ways you can find a certified clinical herbalist. And this is not dispelling the general herbalist or the community herbalist, or the master herbalist. But if things are more com complicated, you may want a clinical herbal therapist, and that is the highest level of education you can go in herbal medicine. So the um, American Herbalist Guild is a wonderful resource that can potentially put someone in, um, contact with a clinical herbalist. Of course, Herbalists Without Borders International can maybe help with that as well. Um, and there are various guilds and I will loosely say governing bodies for herbal medicine. The BC Association of Herbal Medicine, the Canadian Association for Herbal Medicine. These are places where you get membership based off of the standard of education, so you know that individuals being referred from these places are going to be upheld in that standard of education and are going to have a actual clinical certification usually from a four year program.

Ivelisse Page:

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. My pleasure. We'll make sure to put the that in our show notes for people to be able to find easily. Absolutely. So her herbal medicine I know can take many forms from tinctures to teas to capsules. Mm-hmm. Can you walk us through how these are made and why different forms might be chosen for different things.

Petra Sovcov:

Yeah, of course. And that's really, actually really exciting. Herbal Herbal Pharmacy or herbal Pharmacopeia. So you know, a clinical herbalist is gonna be trained in how to create these items. A lot of practitioners will refer people out to already created formulations buying from, from health food stores, and those are fine for general use. They're usually in the scope. From what I've seen, and this, this is not a blanket statement by any means, but just from what I've seen, these are usually low dose blanketed formulas instead of specific. So a clinical herbalist is going to be able to make something absolutely specific to the individual's needs and to the state that they are in. So oftentimes, for example. For example, what I've run into is if someone, for example, has a very inflamed gastrointestinal tract, and I'm going to make recommendations for an herbal supplement that's already encapsulated, the body's gonna have to work extra hard to break that down. So finding the type of formulation that's going to work best for the person's state allows us to then use tinctures, teas, decoctions, sometimes inhalants, sometimes tablets, sometimes capsules. Um. What's key to know is that tinctures, infusions are, and decoctions are liquid. Tinctures are something called mark to menstrom. It's a ratio that allows us to make something very strong or drop down. So you have liquid extracts, which are one to one, one to two, one to three tinctures, one to five, one to seven, one to 10 on some, uh herbals that are considered toxic botanicals or, um, dangerous botanicals. We're looking at ratios of one to 30, one to 50, one to 100, and a clinical herbalist is going to know what best to use in these situations. So tincture just means, um, plant matter to alcohol. Gotcha. Okay. Tea means plant matter to boiling water sitting in a cup. A decoction is plant matter to boiling water. Cooked for an X amount of time. Okay. And then the rest, we know tablets, capsules, inhalants, and so forth.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah. Yeah. We have a local herbalist, um, here in Fort Collins, and it's a wonderful store because you can walk in and she, one of the women there is a clinical herbalist and you'll, you can share with her what you're experiencing, whether it's really bad, cold and, and specify to what symptoms or even going through menopause and, and needing relief. And they can adjust whatever's in your herbal mix based on even allergies. I'm allergic to peppermint and so it's really hard to find stomach soothing herbs that don't contain peppermint or spearmint, right? Things like that. So. So, yeah, it's really wonderful to be able to have these resources that are super healing and, easy for your body to digest mm-hmm. And to help your body to, um, absorb well. In the sense of cancer. Mm-hmm. Um, people who are undergoing conventional treatments like chemotherapy or radiation, are there certain herbs that should absolutely be avoided or are there some that you've found that really support the body through those treatments?

Petra Sovcov:

That's a great question. So, you know, in, in theory there's certain classes of herbs that, or certain actions that we don't want to use with certain pharmaceuticals. So for example, if someone who is going through, uh, their cancer journey is on immune suppressing drugs. We then don't necessarily want to use class of herbs called immunomodulators or immuno stimulants, and a good practitioner is gonna know not to do that. There are certainly herbs that we have seen potentially in clinical trials that can actually make these various class of chemotherapy drugs potentially stronger. And we have also seen certain classes of herbs that can help people recover. When I'm working with clients, when they're generally in active chemotherapy, it really depends on what the client is wanting. So I'm working with individuals where I'm trying to support from where they are, and many times that is support after chemotherapy, or after radiation. And I'm not, you know, I'm not the type of client who's going to argue with the oncologist, right? Yes. That's not, that's not my job. And I have no training as an oncologist. So, you know, if they say no herbs during chemotherapy, then I'm going to respect my client's decision and not push for herbs during chemotherapy, obviously. Yeah. But, you know, um, we've seen, for example, the herb ganoderma lucidum, which is reishi mushroom.

Ivelisse Page:

Hmm.

Petra Sovcov:

From what we can tell right now, no real known contraindications, of course, safety's sake. We don't necessarily do it at the same time, but that's a really powerful herbal ally after chemotherapy that can help bring back vitality, energy levels, decrease inflammation and so forth. Mm-hmm.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. Yeah. I love that. I, I used to take a mushroom blend mm-hmm. Even during my cancer journey all those years ago. Mm-hmm. Um, and I know that it w it played a huge factor in not only my healing, but also in my vitality and my energy, so.

Petra Sovcov:

Absolutely. There's, there's a lot of herbal allies and, you know, I can't really say, you know, give a full list because if someone's listening to this who might have a specific scenario, then I could actually be, you know, causing potential harm. But what I will say is, yes, there are herbs that we can use during various chemo potentially or after?

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. Everybody's case is different. And you know, I'm, I'm the same way. I am very careful not to share exactly what I did during my journey, because people may think, well, I have stage, I have stage four colon cancer as well. Yeah. I need to do exactly what Ivelisse did, and, and it's not, um, there are aspects that are backbones to treatment like mistletoe therapy and herbs and homeopathy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And IV vitamin C, all those kinds of things are amazing. Right. But everybody's an individual and needs to be treated as such, so I, I appreciate that, that you shared that. You also teach about the environmental impact on human health and how important the detoxification not only in cancer care, but in everyday life. What herbs do you find most effective for gentle yet supportive detox pathways.

Petra Sovcov:

Yeah, and it's really interesting that you mentioned detox because I actually, I have a talk about detox and detox myth and uh, environmental factors. And so what I say to individuals looking for detoxification, there's detoxification and chelation and let's move things and let's get it out, which can be quite uncomfortable. And then there is detoxification pathway support where we open all the channels of detoxification and we allow for the body to do what it does naturally. So these are herbs that are like oftentimes lymphatics, liver supporters, blood cleaners, kidney support. One of my favorites, obviously it's used a lot, but Astragalus, membranaceus, um, it's a adaptogen. It helps with the creation of healthy red blood cells. It helps with the creation of healthy white blood cells, helps to boost platelets. Um, so we want things like that and things that also help with the proper urination and elimination. Just opening all channels of elimination because the body does know how to detoxify. So having this conversation in the spring is actually pretty funny because this is when people start detox, detoxifying. And I like to playfully call it diarrhea season. People like I'm gonna detoxify in the spring. And a lot of these detoxifying formulas that you see on the market are actually just glorified laxatives. With really like you, with Sena and, and all these herbs that make you go, so it makes you feel like you're detoxifying. But a lot of them, in my opinion, and you know, what's an opinion worth, uh, sometimes miss the mark with not necessarily having herbs that are then going to also support digestion and circulation and kidney health and proper elimination of the other pathways as well. So, uh, for detoxification, um, take heed and take care.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, for sure. I tell that to a lot of my friends because yeah, there's lots of things that are out there now and parasite cleanses, you name it. Mm-hmm. So many. And you know, if you're not under a doctor's care, um, and this is even outside of a, a cancering process, you can really cause your body to become very ill. And so I really feel it's so important to be followed by a practitioner who knows this side of care and that can really help your body to, um, really, like you're saying, detoxify in a gentle way. Yeah. That, that your body can handle.

Petra Sovcov:

And certainly yes and no when it comes to pot potentials for, for harm because, you know. Our body yes, knows what to do with herbs, but certain herbs are considered short term, low dose. Right. And some herbs are, are very safe for larger doses, long term. So it's just knowing and, and working with someone who knows how to use those herbs properly is, is really key. I'm not certain if there's any sort of long-term, major danger, but certainly if there's preexisting complications and preexisting issues, then you obviously don't want to go and self dose and, and self. Self-work.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah. And, and I'm not so much saying about herbs that people are using. Mm-hmm. There are a lot of kits that are out there that are, you know, in capsules and may not be all herbs. And, I just don't, don't know, what's involved with, with many of'em that are out there. But, I do know that some herbal, tinctures for detoxifying don't taste the best. So how can one take these wonderful tinctures and, um, medicine. Is there a way that you've taught your clients, um, in order to be able to handle them?

Petra Sovcov:

I just let them suffer a bit. No. So, you know, when it comes to like chronic, um, chronic long-term health issues, uh, you know, there is often the complaint, oh my gosh, that tastes awful. And I say, well, it took us a long time to get to where we are now. And so expecting something that's going to instantly, uh, eliminate all the problems and taste wonderful, might be a little unrealistic. Mm-hmm. So what I'll say with the herbs is oftentimes when we're working with, um, very heavy things and we're working with, with some herbs that really don't taste good, what I'll say it's short term pain for hopefully longer term gain. Um, a tincture, what you do is you pour your dose in a little bit of glass and you add a bit of hot water to hopefully burn off some of the alcohol, and then you just, you get it done. You can chase it with some juice. You could chase it with some orange juice or something. But, um, when it comes to individual individuals, for example, who need the herbs in the same sort of, um, strength as a tincture but cannot handle an alcohol, of course, uh, a qualified herbalist or clinical herbalists will be able to do an extraction, pull the, pull the, the alcohol out, and then replace it with something potentially better tasting. My favorite is I use a Manuka honey. A lot of clinical herbalist will create a glycerite, so they'll replace it with glycerin. Um, I don't like glycerin because I don't always know what's in it. Mm-hmm. It says, you know, various vegetable, organic vegetable cellulose or whatnot. Um, so, but with honey or manuka honey, I know exactly what's going in it. So it's, it's much easier for me to do it, to do it that way for individuals who can't necessarily take tinctures.

Believe Big:

We hope you're enjoying today's episode on Herbal Medicine with Petra Sovcov. This spring, Believe Big is working hard to bring hope where it's needed most, and with your help that Hope can Bloom. Imagine hearing the words, your child has cancer. For Jason and Melissa Jacobi, that devastating reality came when their 2-year-old son Luca was diagnosed with leukemia. It's a nightmare no family should face alone. And that's where you come in. Thanks to generous supporters like you Believe Big stands with families like the Jacobis, providing financial assistance, vital resources, and access to life-changing integrative care. This spring, you can make Hope Bloom. Your donation becomes a lifeline, offering relief, healing, and strength to those facing their toughest battle. Give today by texting BELIEVEBIG(no spaces) to 5 3 5 5 5 on your smartphone. That's BELIEVEBIG B-E-L-I-E-V-E-B-I-G to 5 3 5 5 5. Thank you for Believing Big with us!

Ivelisse Page:

So like with supplements, I often hear that not all herbs are created equal. Right? How is the quality, sourcing, or brand when it comes to herbal products?

Petra Sovcov:

So important. So important because the world that we live in is not the world that we lived in even 10, 20, 30 years ago. Uh, a lot of our global soils are, are heavily impacted with agrochemicals and these agrochemicals, unfortunately, we don't necessarily know their entire lifespan and how long they go in the soil. All we know is that they build up strength over time. So here's what I will say about herbs is in my opinion, is that it's very important for a couple things to be front center for individuals wanting to use herbal medicine. One is make sure that if you are getting herbs from a supplier or a clinician or whatever, that they are certified organic and grown for herbal medicine. Why is this? Twofold, one is that many, many of our herbs are endangered or heavily impacted in the wild. It's my opinion that many of the herbs need to remain herbs in the wild so we have them for future generations. So if growers are growing them on a farm, they're grown for herbal medicine. We're not taking them from, from the wild. Now that is this, however, I also do wildcraft, but I'm wildcrafting in a very respectful manner for the plant and for the land not taking from areas that are heavily impacted or that have, um, herbs that are endangered. So I'm, I'm harvesting things like dandelion, chickweed things that are in abundance in the wild, from safe locations. The other thing is, um, making certain that the supplier, if you're for example, getting a full product, like a, like a, like a tincture, formulation from a supplier, um, pay attention to the manufacturing facilities. Because of the possibility for cross-contamination, um, for benzene products or other inflammatory chemicals that are actually dangerous can be present. So knowing how they're manufacturing their formulas, where and what kind of cleaners they're using, what kind of lubricants they're using is gonna have an impact because there is of course, the potential for cross con contamination, and that just can potentially impact the illness further.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. Yeah. And, and explain to people too. I think this is an aspect that sometimes we don't realize when we're purchasing herbal, um, teas, um, from, not even just from the store. You know, it could be a wonderful organic tea, but then the bag that they put it in. Oh, they have plastics in it.

Petra Sovcov:

Endocrin disrupting chemicals. Is that what we're talking about? Yes. My favorite topic in the whole wide world.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. And so it's really frustrating that you have this beautiful organic herbs and then they're laden in this plastic teabag or in a bleached teabag. So what, what are your recommendations for people to safely take herbs?

Petra Sovcov:

So, um, formulations in a paper bag loose

Ivelisse Page:

yes.

Petra Sovcov:

Is gonna be your friend, right? Your herbalist, if you're purchasing from an herbalist, uh, it's very good if those formulas are stored in glass and then go from the glass container to your paper bag. Doesn't have to be fancy. It might not have a fancy, beautiful label, but it's probably gonna be safer. Herbs coming in tea bags. That's, that's a tough one because oftentimes people don't have access to an herbal dispensatory or an apothecary. And so they'll buy things at a store from a great producer. But those herbal, those tea bags are often laid, lay, made out of plastics. And then you get microplastics, and then you get phthalates, and then we've got endocrine disruptors and xenoestrogens and it's just a big mess. So, avoid as much as possible, in my opinion, herbs that are in plastic based tea bags, uh, my own formulations come to people in, in non, non fancy paper and I actually give everybody organic cotton tea bags that are reusable. So, you know, things like that are a better option. If you are dealing with a chronic inflammatory issue or a, or a health crisis, we want to mitigate as much environmental toxin and as much environmental toxin exposure as possible. And it is enlightening, but also can be frightening to see just how polluted our world has become. And we don't necessarily share the information about microplastics and endocrine disruptors and how these literally build up over time. And our endocrine system is the master system of our body. Every single cellular metabolic function is driven by hormones. Yes. The endocrine system from the thought in your head to the digestion, to the poop, it's all hormones.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. Yes. And you just said something, you know, that I wanted you to touch on in the last few minutes that we have. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, we know that the mind body connection plays a huge role in healing. How does herbal medicine support the emotional health, or mental clarity for someone, let's say, navigating a cancer diagnosis?

Petra Sovcov:

Oh boy. Oh boy. That's, you know, such a huge part and I see time and time again. Um, in cases where trauma is a big driver towards illness, and we know that trauma is inflammatory. I'm not even talking about herbal medicine right now. I'm just talking about clinical science. That trauma and unprocessed trauma is pro-inflammatory and it sets off the inflammatory system. Eventually that inflammatory cycle becomes self perpetuating with pro-inflammatory messengers. And so part of healing is resolution through somatic therapy, talk therapy and so forth. So what herbs can do, what can herbs do in these kind of situations? It's kind of a little bit of a, a love letter to chemistry in that certain herbs can help mitigate the damage from pro-inflammatory messengers and could potentially help turn off the inflammatory cycle and restore it to normal function. However, that's not possible without work from the individual working through that trauma, processing it, getting it out of the body as much as possible, which is where herbal medicine and somatic and herbal medicine and talk therapy can be so incredibly powerful as a combined force.

Ivelisse Page:

What herbs are great to combine with somatic and talk therapy. Yeah. Are you talking things like chamomile or different things?

Petra Sovcov:

No. No, because chamomile is, is is sedating and gentle and it's a digestive. I'm talking about bigger guns here.

Ivelisse Page:

Okay.

Petra Sovcov:

Talking about,

Ivelisse Page:

I wanna hear it. I wanna hear it.

Petra Sovcov:

Yeah. Some of my favorites. So I'm gonna say these as some of my favorites with the commentary, please do not self dose. Please do not. Um, self formulate, but some of my favorites for chronic inflammatory, heavy inflammatory inflammation caused by trauma, cat's claw, Uncaria tomentosa super anti-inflammatory. Herbs like Stachys officinalis now called stachys bontanica, this is, um, heartsease. It's been around, we used it since medieval times. Um, wood betony, this, this helps with, it's traditionally used to lighten the load of trauma and heartbreak. And I don't know if science has caught up to necessarily how this works, but what I've seen is it helps regulate the nervous system, helps regulate, um, nerve responses. Okay. And then there's other ones that we don't necessarily talk about, not overly well known. Um, and a tender plant. I don't know if I really want to mention this, but I will mention this for practitioners who are able to get it in a sustainable way, and that's ghost pipe, ghost pipe mushroom, um, for complex PTSD and PTSD can help mitigate or compartmentalize, uh, some of these traumatic and overwhelming feelings.

Ivelisse Page:

Well that's wonderful. You know, thank you so much Petra, for all of that you shared today on the episode, it was packed with information and tips that I know is gonna allow people to dig into this side of healing a little bit further. Um, thank you so much for joining us.

Petra Sovcov:

My pleasure entirely.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, so if, if someone would want to reach out to you to get more information for their specific case, Petra, what would be the best way for them to reach out to you?

Petra Sovcov:

Yeah, they can go to my website, healinghouseherbal.com, or email at me at healinghouseherbal@gmail.com. Either myself or my assistant will get back and, email is fine. There's a number for the wellness clinic if needed, also on the website and I would be happy to have a chat if someone needs help.

Ivelisse Page:

Well, thank you so much and we'll look forward to hearing from you soon.

Petra Sovcov:

Sounds good. Thank you and my pleasure entirely.

Ivelisse Page:

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