Believe Big Podcast

107-Dr. Michelle Niesley - Onward, Reclaiming Health After Childhood Cancer

• Ivelisse Page & Dr. Michelle Niesley • Season 4 • Episode 107

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In this episode of the Believe Big Podcast, Ivelisse sits down with Dr. Michelle Niesley, a recognized leader in integrative oncology, to explore pediatric cancer care through a whole-person lens. 

They dive into the importance of sleep, nutrition, and addressing environmental factors, while also discussing how integrative therapies like mistletoe can complement conventional treatments. Dr. Niesley shares insights on the role of functional medicine, the emotional toll of a diagnosis, and how families can effectively support their children through treatment. 

This conversation offers practical guidance, hope, and a vision for a more collaborative approach to pediatric cancer care and survivorship.


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Ivelisse Page:

Hi, I am Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and it's always a pleasure to spend this time with you. Today, I am so excited to welcome my friend, Dr. Michelle Niesley, a leading expert in integrative oncology who works extensively with our pediatric cancer patients and survivor. Dr. Niesley earned her doctorate in naturopathic medicine from Bastar University and completed a hospital-based residency at the Cancer Treatment Centers of America. She holds a master's in evaluative clinical sciences from Dartmouth, focusing on biostatistics and epidemiology. She has worked at the Raby Institute for Integrative Medicine at Northwestern University in Chicago as a clinical researcher and a co-director of Integrative Medicine research. She also has co-founded Chemo and Crayons, a nonprofit that is a unified resource for all people whose lives have been impacted by a child with cancer. Dr. Niesley has served on the board of Directors for the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians, and she currently serves as the Chief Executive Officer of the Riordan Clinic in Kansas. Welcome to the show, Dr. Niesley.

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.

Ivelisse Page:

Well, we always start our podcast with our guest's favorite health tip, and I know you're in this world of health. So what would be your, if you had to pick one, what would be your favorite?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Um, I would say sleep. I know that's not as shiny thing, but we use with both our adult and pediatric patients, the 3, 2, 1. So stop eating three hours before, stop drinking two hours before, no screens an hour before. I have several patients that are currently on maintenance for pediatric patients, and they were thinking this was gonna be so much easier and sleep is still an issue. And so it's just amazing how much better all of us do when we've had adequate sleep. So really doubling down on sleep is my, my secret weapon.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, I would completely agree because it impacts so much more than we even think, not only from a cognitive thinking aspects, but our hormones as we get older. Yeah. And just being able to have our body be able to be in rest and repair. So I I love that you actually shared that tip. It's, it isn't mentioned as often as I believe that it should. So Dr. Niesley, what inspired you to focus your work on pediatric oncology and survivorship?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah, it's been a bit of a windy road. So after my residency was completed, I worked for a year at the Children's Memorial Hospital in Chicago. And, uh, had the opportunity to work with some kiddos that were undergoing cancer treatment. And I just remember there being such a brick wall between what the patients were able to tell the physicians that they were doing or wanted to do, and the doctors saying if it hasn't been studied, you know, if I don't have a double-blind placebo controlled trial, I don't want that child putting the whey protein powder in the McDonald's milkshake from downstairs, right? Mm-hmm. Um, which I have questions about the benefit of that milkshake, obviously. Um, and so then I ended up going to Dartmouth and um, you know, subsequently was back at Cancer Treatment Centers of America directing clinical trials units and other things. But it really came full circle when I met Sarah, who's the co-founder of Chemo and Crayons, and our children are actually playing together on a New Jersey, Ocean City, New Jersey. They're playing together at the beach, and I could see a port. Her daughter had a port because she was undergoing treatment, and so I approached the family and said, Hey, I see your daughter has a port. Ended up, you know, getting to know Sarah better. And then we just realized that we really needed some integrative resources for families. I knew that way back when, when I was at Children's Memorial in 2003, but I had to kind of put it to rest for a little while and it still has been a bit of a winding road. Chemo and Crayons has kind of sputtered and stopped and sputtered and stopped. Um. But we're really excited to be collaborating with Jen from Remission Nutrition. We're gonna be kicking off some survivor survivorship program in 2026 that we're really excited about, but a lot of people don't necessarily wanna go into pediatrics from an integrative perspective. One, the work is hard, um, but two, there's a really large difference between adult chemotherapy regimens. Usually it's someone gets a chemo regimen, they get chemo once every three weeks, and they do that for three or four months. With pediatrics, it's 56 days of that, and then a week of radiation. And then we're doing two weeks of this thing. But there's several different chemos during that two week period. And so pediatrics is just really fast. Um, a lot of different medications are involved and so it's a, it's a lot to keep up with, obviously, not only for the parents, but then the providers to make sure that we're providing adequate care. So.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, it really takes a special person to really help them and we're so appreciative of all that you do for them. You know, we hear from the families all the time how grateful they are for the support because navigating this world is even, even trickier. And I think, you know, speak to that for a moment because a lot of people don't realize that legalities when it comes to pediatric cancer versus adults, we have choices and options. Correct. Uh, but many parents. They don't have an option or their child can be taken from them. So can you share with that a little bit about that?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah, so from an adult perspective, and this also comes out of clinical trial work as well, you have protected populations. So for example, in in clinical trials, pediatrics is a protected population.'cause again, they're not making the decision for themselves. Usually the parents are. Pregnant women are a protected population, you know. People in jail or a protected population. Um, so from a pediatric perspective, I think that one of the challenges in being fair to conventional oncology because, because of clinical trials, I mean, cure rates for pediatric oncology 40, 50 years ago were not good. And now on average, 80 to 85% of children who are diagnosed are going to be cured of their disease. So that's, you know, and it, it depends on diagnosis. Some prognosis are better, some are not. But in general, that's a huge amount of people that are gonna undergo treatment and then go on to lead, you know, healthy and happy lives. And so from the oncologist perspective, they're like, look, we are doing so well with this particular diagnosis. We just don't wanna accidentally say yes to something that is potentially going to cause this therapy to be less effective. Um, and it's a full-time job for me to stay up on all the latest and greatest with integrative medicine research. There's something new coming out every day practically. Um, and most pediatric oncologists are seen 10, 15, 18 patients a day, like they're staying up on all the chemo regimens, all the targeted therapies. And so it can be very tricky. And so we get to this point where parents don't wanna tell the doctor what they're doing because they're afraid the doctor's gonna say no to everything, which some do, so that they don't say accidentally say yes to something that could possibly interfere. And so what you end up with is what we call non-disclosure, or the parent is not telling the doctor. And then let's say liver enzymes increase. If the doctor doesn't know what the patient is taking, then they may think, oh, the chemo's too toxic. We need to lower the dose. Where it could be that L-glutamine, that supplement you were taking to prevent numbness and tingling in the fingers or toes because the kiddo is receiving vincristine, for example. And so it's so important to try and educate, and that's what I try to do when I get my plans to patients. Often there are citations and journal articles. There is actually a lot of research out there. And so trying to have the parents share that information as much as possible with the oncologist. Um. But I will say there's a fair amount of parents who, they run into some conflict with the oncologist and then that just makes them shut down and not share. And that just, that's such a patient safety issue. So really trying to come at it from a patient safety perspective is really important.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, and I think you said something that's really good is that showing the documentation or the studies that's showing the efficacy of the supplement that they're having them take, for example, like you said, with the numbing and the tingling. Mm-hmm. You know, to prevent long-term effects because they know, and, and I heard the statistics and tell me if I'm wrong, but I heard that by age 50, uh, a child who had ha who've gone through traditional treatments as a pediatric cancer patient has up to five life altering effects due to the treatments that they endured. Correct. And so that's, in my opinion, one main reason why I feel this side of medicine is so important because we're trying to not only help them survive this mm-hmm. But also long-term effects that can impact them for years to come and their quality of life.

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Absolutely. And so, playing upon that, when I, and I don't always verbalize this to my patients, but it's always in the back of my mind, even when I'm seeing someone with a new diagnosis. I have an eye out for 30, 40, 50 years from now. Because I know that traditionally, and granted therapies used to be more toxic and they're trying to reduce the amount of radiation or trying to reduce the amount of chemo somebody needs. That's what I mean. The current studies are always trying to refine, but I'm always looking at, I don't want this kiddo getting osteoporosis when they're 30 or 40. You know, I don't want them developing diseases at 60 or 70 year olds may get when they're 30 or 40. So how do we keep those bones nice and strong? The majority of pediatric cancer patients are very low in vitamin D. Vitamin D is not only important for bones and fatigue and seasonal affective disorder, it sensitizes insulin to insulin, re, or insulin receptors to insulin. So we're talking blood sugar regulation, it naturally monitors blood pressure. It's a natural ACE inhibitor. So there's so many different characteristics even of that one vitamin, for example, that just trying to go from, at it from an evidence-based to like, yes, what are we gonna do to prevent side effects, improve quality of life, obviously try and make sure that this disease doesn't come back, but let's also look forward into the future to make sure that, you know, the child when they're 30 has a quality of life that is just like their 30-year-old colleagues.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, yes. Well, what role do you feel nutrition and diet play in supporting recovery and preventing recurrence for pediatric cancer survivors?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Uh, I, it's the whole ball game. Um, so I mean, if I could choose one therapy, it makes such a difference, you know? And that was one of the challenges I ran into when I was at Children's way back in 2003, is having a McDonald's downstairs in the children's hospital, right? So they were coming up and eating their happy meals while they're getting chemo. And just from a sugar perspective, from a lack of nutrition perspective. And you know, it used to be somewhat thought in conventional oncology and to a certain degree it still is like calories or calories, just keep the weight on the child. And I'm like, a thousand calories of healthy protein, fruit and vegetables are so much more nutrient dense and so much more important than just getting food in somebody. Right? Um, and so nutrition is really the cornerstone. When I'm working with patients, I talk, kids are usually pretty naturally active if they're feeling well. My adult patients, we definitely talk about exercise. Sleep, as I alluded to earlier, is incredibly important. But nutrition, I can't out supplement a diet that needs a lot of improvement, right? So if someone's going and eating fast food all the time, or you know, for pediatrics, you don't have to worry about alcohol consumption, but maybe they are drinking sodas or energy drinks or something, or eating again, ultra processed foods with all of the things that we find in ultra processed foods, really low in nutritional value. The body really needs and unusual, very high in sugar too. The body really needs every little ounce of nutrition it can to repair and heal, not only from the therapy, but then also make sure the immune system is functioning normally to make sure we're taking care of all of those, you know, leftover cancer cells. So it's

Ivelisse Page:

key. Yeah. And I think it's really tricky because, you know, there are picky eaters. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so how do you get around that? Because I know the parents are already seeing their child going through something difficult, and many times they're like, ah, I'm just gonna give them milkshake. They've, they're going through so much. Yeah. How can we help to educate parents or how can they overcome, you know, the child's inability to wanna have a wide variety of fruits and vegetables or things that are gonna be nutrient dense calories for them?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

You bet. So two things about that. One. Tastes are gonna change. Chemotherapy often changes the taste buds. When you talk to adult patients, they'll talk about things tasting like cardboard or tasting like metal. Um, and so how things used to taste in favorite foods change. And so that's one of the things I hear from parents is they ate, you know, a whole carton of strawberries for the past three days and now they won't touch them. Right. So just understanding that it's gonna ebb and flow as far as what the child is going to think tastes good and is going to be drawn to. And then two, I try and meet patient or parents where they're at. And so if they are having that milkshake, for example, can we put a handful of spinach in it? Spinach really doesn't taste like very much, right? Can we put a scoop of protein powder in it? Can we do a smaller serving instead of a larger serving? Can we sneak half an avocado in there, right? Mm-hmm. And so I always start by trying, if they're like, oh, little Jimmy gets his milkshake in every single night, I'm like, great. How can we make that milkshake a little coconut oil, right? What other things can we add to it that won't alter the taste significantly, but are going to end up making that more nutrient dense? Again, it's just about variety. Just because you know, the child doesn't want to eat green beans today, doesn't mean that they're not gonna want it tomorrow. So continuing to offer small servings. It's another thing I recommend for both adults and pediatrics. Don't do a big dinner plate of something or a huge smoothie because if someone's not very hungry, that looks a little overwhelming. So you're much better going with smaller servings for kiddos or smaller, you know, salad plates instead of dinner plate. So that it looks like it's something that they could actually accomplish. And then also just trying to get parents, you know, maybe the kiddo could just take a bite, having the two bite rule in the house. Like, just try it. I know you didn't like it yesterday, but I made it a little differently today. So let's give it a shot. Right. And just keeping a positive spin on it as best we can and not like, this is good for you. You have to eat this, or you won't get well, like always framing things in a positive way. So, oh, if they don't want to eat something and they've tried it multiple times, like that's okay. We'll try it again maybe sometime next week and then move on to something else.'cause they're, they're handling a lot in their little world right now as well as well.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah. That's really great advice. You know, beyond the, the diet. Mm-hmm. You know, with lifestyle habits, can, what can help, uh, survivors rebuild strength, improve their immunity and support their emotional health?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Right. Boy that we could talk about that all day. Um, so a couple things that I, I wanna say about that, um, from a cancer treatment perspective, and this is a metaphor that isn't mine. It's been used widely out there. But if we think of cancer visually, kind of like a weed, and we're growing it in soil, cancer treatment therapies try to kill the weed, right? They kill it with chemicals, with chemotherapy, surgery, they may remove it, right? They may radiate it, for lack of a better term. We're trying to get rid of that weed in some way. But conventional oncology is not usually looking at what allowed that weed to grow in the first place. So they will look for genetic issues like, patients with NF one are more likely to have certain types of tumors. There are some genetic predispositions, um, in adult cancers. There's BRCA one and BRCA two for breast cancer, for example. But I always like to look at the soil, so to speak. And so that's where functional medicine testing comes into play because a diagnosis is simply a description of what is happening. It doesn't tell you why. And so I may have two patients with leukemia. One grew up in farmland around a bunch of pesticides and herbicides. The other may have had some arsenic exposure from the wonderful organic garden that was actually built with wood that had been, you know, weatherized and treated with creosote and other things, other weatherizing components that maybe contain arsenic, right? And so those elephants in the room, those two kiddos, even if they have the same diagnosis and same treatment plan for me, or from conventional oncology, they're gonna have really different plans from me. One, to take care of the pesticides and herbicides, and then the other one to get the heavy metals out of their system. So when you're talking about long-term survivorship, we are always taking a look at, okay, yes, we know what the diagnosis is. Yes, we know what the treatment was and what the potential long-term side effects could be. But what's the elephant in the room that we don't know about? And so that's where functional medicine testing really, I would look at genomics. We look at some of those environmental exposures. Sometimes food sensitivities and kiddos can be helpful. Anything that increases inflammation in the system is gonna make it harder for the immune system to function appropriately. So instead of saying, these are my top five supplements that I recommend, that's what a lot of families will be like, well, what are the top five things I can do? And it's like, it depends on what's going on with your kid. Right. But in general, like I said, vitamin D looks like it's very promising. A lot of patients are low in Vitamin D, curcumin. There's a ton of information. There's some really amazing case reports, as you probably know, as far as mistletoe is concerned. So mistletoe and helleborus are something that I use frequently in my practice as well. Um, there are some case studies in osteosarcoma and a few other types of cancer with pediatric cases where the patient wasn't responding to chemotherapy and they started mistletoe therapy and the patient got better. And, you know, disease was no longer found, they were in remission. Um, and so a lot of times after the patient is done, I don't always use it during therapy just because there's a lot going on in the child's world that sometimes I will start it during active treatment, but definitely after treatment, I think it's a wonderful tool to use to go ahead and hopefully maintain that remission and achieve that cure. Um, what other things do I like? Obviously exercise is incredibly important. Again, kids, if they're feeling well, are pretty active by nature. So normally it's not like an adult patient where you have to encourage them to exercise, lift heavy things, um, like we do in our, our older populations. But, um. I think that's a, that's a start.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah. Those, those are wonderful. And you know, I I, I'm a firm believer in how mistletoe, and I've seen it not only in adults, but in, in pediatrics as well. The kids night and day difference. Yeah. Being able, even just quality of life, not that, not even the aspect of it being able to kill cancer cells and mm-hmm have that. But you see the quality of the life of that person just improved dramatically from mood to energy, to strength, to pain relief. I mean, it's, it's incredible. Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah. It's really, I think one of the challenges is that if we were in India, if we were in Germany, there's places in Europe where they give intravenous, uh, mistletoe and then they give chemotherapy right after it. Right? Like it's part of the regimen. And one of the challenges, at least with giving, um. Mistletoe therapy to kiddos is, it's usually a subcutaneous injection. And so you're asking parents to give their kids a shot two to three times a week, three times initially, once we find the dose twice a week. And some of the parents are just like, I can't do one more thing to my kid, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so, so we do have to kind of navigate that to a certain degree, but you're right, the patients that do start mistletoe or helleborus during treatment often have fewer side effects too. Yeah.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes, yes. You know, I, I have my ideas and I always just like to ask you all, because you're in this world and you've done so much research. Yeah. What, in your opinion, what are the top three reasons why you're, we're seeing so much pediatric cancer cases? I mean, there are kids as young as, goodness, six months old, that are being diagnosed and, even with colon cancer. Mm-hmm. In their twenties. Yeah. When it used to be things in your fifties, in your opinion, what would be the top three things that you seem to find as a result of all the cancer that we're seeing?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah, so I've gotta go with environmental exposure. Um, I think that the amount of chemicals that we're exposed to on a daily basis now are significant and for adult populations, I think at the Believe Big conference that we were at together, you know, there was a speaker who was talking about how women are exposed to, you know, hundreds of chemicals every day. An average of 200 different chemicals between what we wash our hair with and cosmetics and fragrances and laundry detergent and everything else. Men, it's less than a hundred chemicals a day, but it's still a fair amount. Um, I think ultra processed food is not helping. Our 20 and 30 year olds have been raised on, you know, even those of us who didn't have a lot of money growing up, I feel like our food was still cleaner without all of the different additives and everything. Now, there's a really great kind of picture out there of what Gatorade was when it first came out, which is, you know, some coloring and some salt and some water, and now there's like 20 ingredients, right? So it's not. What we're eating now, even if we're eating the same food, it's not the same food. Um, and then I think the other thing obviously is that pesticides, herbicides, glyphosate, I mean, we've just developed more and more and more chemicals. And so even when we're trying to eat in a healthy manner, um, eat organically, for example, we're just exposed to so many more things than what we realize. So like I said, there is, there are some cancers out there that do have these genetic predispositions. I don't believe that's the vast majority though. I

Ivelisse Page:

agree. I agree. What is, what are your thoughts on EMFs with kids and their devices and, you know, so much of, of screen time that may be affecting their internal environments?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah, I think that, you know, EMFs are still, I don't wanna say relatively new, but I mean we are definitely seeing increases in a lot of different diseases and you can own, and, and the rise of those diseases definitely coincide with the rise in utilization of devices. And it's a struggle because it's a quick and easy babysitter, right? Yes. And especially in the hospital, you know, if kid like chemo and crayons, every kid gets crayons and something to draw on for to a certain degree. But it's easy to hand them a phone or an iPad or something during treatment and have them watch a movie. Um, and so, yeah, I don't think we fully understand the impact of EMF yet, but I absolutely think it plays a role.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah, we, we had Dr. Dev Devra Davis, um, from the Environmental Health Trust, uh, on our podcast. I think it was a year or two ago, but she said, you know, we, we live in this world, right? So how can we adapt safely? Mm-hmm. And I think one of the things that she shared about devices is download items. Like download your movies, download the shows, and then put it on airplane mode. They can still watch'em. Right. And they're not. Having to be exposed to all the wifi. Um, yeah. And she always said, distance is your friend. And I, and I love that. I still remember that.

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think she's absolutely spot on about that.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah.

Believe Big:

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Ivelisse Page:

And so how do you help? I think another aspect is. I hear this all the time and I cringe because even though social media is really good as far as get getting information out and educating, there has become the shift of these influencers in the health world or health coaches that may not have the medical experience and background to really be sharing, in my opinion mm-hmm, medical things that can potentially harm someone else because like you said, everyone's body's different. Everybody's situation is different. Sure. Even within the same cancer type, so Sure. Like even for myself, people say, Ivelisse, what did you do to overcome stage four colon cancer? Mm-hmm. I rarely share mm-hmm. Outside of mistletoe. Mm-hmm. Because. My situation is a thousand percent different than somebody else, even with the same diagnosis. Right. So how do you help families navigate the safety and effectiveness of therapies that they hear or they find out about online?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah, so that's a great question. So I think that the online, the information that's available online is a great conversation starter. And I am a huge proponent of my visits with my patients being a dialogue and not a monologue. It's not me dictating what's gonna happen. It's me saying, yes, these types of chemos, here's the recommendations based on those chemos, but what else is going on? What else do you wanna know about? So I tend to categorize my recommendations into must do, nice to have or is fine, definitely isn't gonna hurt, and then absolutely not. Right? Um, and I, so I try and make that really clear for patients. And then the other thing is that let's say a patient is getting treatment, one treatment every three weeks. For example, there may be things that they wanna do that could potentially interfere and I'll say, Hey, here's how long the chemo is in your system. So for the first week after you receive that, let's not do that treatment. But then for those other two weeks, that would be a safer time. We're not gonna be worried about interference. And so trying to empower and enable therapies that could be beneficial that at least are not gonna do harm. Um, and I feel like people's intuition is really strong. And so there might be things that I'm like, no, that isn't on the top of my list for you to take, but you're really drawn to it. Like, let's honor that and you can go ahead and do that, but do it at this time instead of that time. Right? So trying to prioritize is usually what I try and assist with.

Ivelisse Page:

Yes. Yeah, there's, there's just so much out there and I think it can be very overwhelming. Sure. And you know, I remember my integrative practitioner telling me,'cause there would be, so even back then mm-hmm. There were so many things coming around the corner and I'm like, well, what about coffee enemas and what about this? And, and we had already a plan in place and he said, those were all wonderful things, but. Can I give you some advice? Mm-hmm. And I'm like, absolutely. And he said, Ivelisse, if your entire day is spent on treating the cancer Yeah. Then the cancer is winning. Yeah. And so powerful. You have to live. Yeah. You have to enjoy life. You have to spend that time with your family, enjoy those moments, and that's gonna bring more healing than that other therapy that's gonna take you three hours to do every single day.

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

That's so healing, and that is something that I will especially tell the parents. I'm like, you are working with me now. Bring me questions or things you hear about. That's fine, but like your job is to be the parent and the caregiver and the family member, right? Your job is not to spend 10 hours a day on Dr. Google trying to figure out, well, that thing actually looks good, but then you may come to me. And I'm like, no, you can't do that. And here's why with this chemo, right? Yes. Um, and so really trying to encourage the parent, the caregivers, the family members to play the role of the support of being present. That's such a huge aspect to you. Were talking earlier about. Healing and survivorship and community is such an important part of that, whether that's a faith community, whether it's your neighbors, it's your family, but having that supportive community around a patient makes all the difference as well. And so if you're constantly watching the influencers and googling this thing, and what about this thing? Like, yeah, you could take these 50 things. One, we gotta prioritize those. You only have so much swallowing space and most people only have so much of a budget. And two, like you said, instead of spending all day on the computer, which it is a way of trying to regain some control and being actively involved in the therapy, right? Or maybe I can help if I can figure out this thing right. A lot of times you can turn that over to a professional and your talents are much better spent being that supportive caregiver to the patient.

Ivelisse Page:

Yeah. I think it gives such peace of mind. Yeah. And so I think that's why it's so important to build a treatment team, not only a support team like you were saying, for emotional and spiritual wellness, but a treatment team that everyone has a specific gifting in their area. And so having you as the integrative practitioner that knows both worlds Yeah. Can really help to guide them along this journey and allow these children to be able to thrive and not just survive going through something so difficult. Yeah. And so in, in our last moments, you know, just looking ahead, what gives you the most hope about the future of integrative pediatric oncology and helping young survivors to truly thrive?

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah. Think, um, one of the things, and it's kind of a takeoff of that influencer, but I feel like families are much more engaged and they're not just saying yes and not asking questions. And so I think as we learn more about the terrain, like we just talked about, as we learn more about additional therapies, that can be helpful. I feel like families and patients are becoming better advocates for themselves. And I do feel like. Conventional oncology is slowly starting to open that door. It varies from oncologist to oncologist, but um, I think that the opportunity for collaboration, communication, education is building every day.

Ivelisse Page:

That's, that's so wonderful to hear. Yeah. Encouraging. Yeah. Well, Dr. Niesley, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing this really insightful information and advice and encouragement. And we will put your information in the show notes so those who are listening or forwarding this to a friend who has someone battling with pediatric cancer can reach out to you. And, uh, we're just really grateful for all that you do for those littles.

Dr. Michelle Niesley:

Yeah, and I'm so thankful for your support as well, and for Believe Big support of the families, the patients. It's meant a world to them, so thank you. Yeah.

Ivelisse Page:

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