Believe Big Podcast

110-Dr. Dan Rubin - Unveiling Dendritic Cell Therapy

• Ivelisse Page & Dr. Dan Rubin • Season 4 • Episode 110

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Today, Ivelisse talks with Dr. Dan Rubin, a naturopathic oncologist and co-founder of Naturopathic Specialists in Scottsdale, Arizona, about an emerging cancer treatment called dendritic cell therapy.

Dr. Rubin explains in simple terms how dendritic cells act like “generals” of the immune system—gathering information about a tumor and teaching the body’s T cells how to recognize and attack cancer. He discusses Immunocine’s “double-loaded” dendritic cell therapy, which uses information from a patient’s own tumor to help train the immune system in a more personalized way. This treatment is currently offered in Cancun and is also being studied in U.S. clinical trials for certain cancers, including glioblastoma and pancreatic cancer.

They walk through what the process looks like for patients—from application and medical record review, to traveling for tumor sampling, collecting immune cells, and receiving a series of injections. Dr. Rubin also shares how tumor tissue can be stored for possible future use and talks honestly about outcomes, cost, and the importance of ongoing testing to determine who may benefit most.

This episode provides hope-filled, easy-to-understand insight into a personalized, immune-based approach to cancer care for patients and caregivers alike.

Learn more about Dr. Dan Rubin. 

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Ivelisse Page

Hi, I am Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and it's always an honor to spend this time with you. Today I am happy to welcome to the podcast one of our longstanding practitioners with Believe Big. His name is Dr. Dan Rubin. Dr. Rubin's practice of naturopathic oncology has been an integral part of the Phoenix Metropolitan Medical community for the past 28 years. After graduating from Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine in 1997, Dr. Rubin returned there to complete his residency. In 2004, he became the founding president of the Oncology Association of Naturopathic Physicians. This organization represented a revolution for the field of naturopathic oncology, providing the first time definition, validation, and standardization of the field of naturopathic oncology. Since that time, Dr. Rubin has become an internationally recognized naturopathic oncologist. He is the co-founder and medical director of Naturopathic Specialists in Scottsdale, Arizona, where he practices as a naturopathic oncologist. At present, Naturopathic Specialists has served the clinical and logistical oncology needs of people from all 50 states as well as 19 countries. They also serve as a teaching and training facility for residents and students desiring to become naturopathic oncologists. Dr. Rubin is an expert at the Integration of Traditional and Naturopathic Medicine for people with cancer and services, both the adult and pediatric population. He is also an expert in the naturopathic approach to people with cancer who either are unable to undergo conventional therapy or who choose not to. He serves as the Director of Business Development for Immunocine, a Cancun based world-class immunotherapy treatment center. Dr. Rubin and Immunocine have also partnered to create a tumor biobank for patients desiring to store their tumor samples for future personalized dendritic cell therapy production. He was also voted National Physician of the Year in 2024 and 2025 by the American Association of Naturopathic Physician. We are so excited to have him on the show. Wow. Welcome Dr. Rubin.

Dr. Dan Rubin

Hey, thank you. Let's have fun.

Favorite Health Tip: EMF Awareness & AriesTech Protection

Ivelisse Page

Yes. So we always like to start our podcast with our guest favorite health tip, and I'm sure you have many. So can you share one with us today?

Dr. Dan Rubin

Yeah, I think if people aren't yet, it's time to really get wise to some of the dangers and health impacts of electromagnetic frequencies or electromagnetic fields or EMF. It's time. All right, everybody show your colors. Yeah. Yeah. We got our Aries on

Ivelisse Page

For those who are listening and aren't watching, we both have our Aries tech necklaces on. That's amazing. Go ahead.

Dr. Dan Rubin

That's it. Get wise. If you, obviously, if you have questions about, I mean this, like Ivelisse said, that's AriesTech. It's ariestech.com. They, my opinion, they have the best, highest quality, most durable, most scientifically sound, and clinically proven validated EMF defracting devices. Most people think it's like EMF blocking. It's not EMF blocking, it's EMF defracting and re-patterning. So, um, it's so cool to be simpatico on that.

Dendritic Cells 101: The “Generals” of the Immune System

Ivelisse Page

I love it. I love it. Mm-hmm. I know I have tried many products and I'm very sensitive to EMFs, to the point where I get headaches. Um, we've done a show on it and it's one of the few products along with the products from Haven that I wear on airplanes that protect me from the, to mitigate the effects of the wifi and all the radiation that's going on. So I a hundred percent, I think we're being bombarded by that everywhere now, and it's a great way to protect your body. Love that tip. So today we are actually talking about dendritic cells, and I heard you speak about this at a medical conference recently, and it was so fascinating and I knew our listeners would want to learn about it, and I don't think many of our listeners even know what dendritic cells are, so I would love for you to just share why are they important to the immune system?

Dr. Dan Rubin

Well then it's integral you from a cancer perspective and being a naturopathic oncologist, I've been thinking about dendritic cells my entire career. Without dendritic cell appropriate functioning, you cannot get the right type of immune response against cancer. It's how biology works it. It just is. So dendritic cells are truly the generals of the immune system. That's it. There's nothing more to it. You need the dendritic cell function to be intact. You need them to be working well. You need them to be able to access the tumor tissue in the body, gather information from it and deliver it to the T cells, and that's how your normal biological immune response occurs.

How Dendritic Cells Train T Cells to Target Cancer

Ivelisse Page

So we often hear a lot about the T cells in cancer and things mm-hmm. That help your T-cell to activate your natural killer cells. So what is the connection between the dendritic cells and these T cells?

Dr. Dan Rubin

So think of dendritic cells as the, the generals. They gather intel and they give intel. And the, the ones that they are chiefly giving the intelligence about what's inside the body. Cancer wise. It's not just cancer. There's viral information. There's, you know, other messages in the body. For the intents and purposes of this, we're talking about cancer, right? So you have to hand off that information to your infantry, to your foot soldiers somehow.

Ivelisse Page

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Dan Rubin

And the T cells are just that. So they, they sit down, they get a PowerPoint presentation from the dendritic cells, and they get their marching orders, which is basically like. You have our permission to go and kill cells that display this and display this. Go search for this in the body. And when you see these two pieces of information, kill that cell. It's an enormous responsibility held by the dendritic cells to give permission to the foot soldiers of the body to say, go kill part of the body.

Ivelisse Page

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Dan Rubin

Um, you know, we try and do that with chemotherapy, right? We try and kill part of the body without killing too much of the rest of the body, and we, we try and do that with the immune response. So T cells are highly distinct from dendritic cells, but they're absolutely comrades. There's a harmony, there's a course that needs to happen, immunologically speaking internally, and they're part of that show.

Dendritic Cell “Vaccine” Explained + Immunocine Overview

Ivelisse Page

Gotcha. Okay. That that, thank you for explaining it. That was very easy to understand. So, you know, I've heard a lot about dendritic cell vaccine and I know people are like, Ooh, vaccine. I don't, you know, not say that it's a vaccine. It's very different than what we consider vaccine. So how does this dendritic cell therapy or vaccine mm-hmm. How does it work for cancer patients?

Dr. Dan Rubin

Yeah, so the, let's just say it here. You know, the word vaccine gets this sort of uneasy connotation from, I don't know what percentage of your listeners, you know, did or didn't get certain injections at a certain time of this decade. Um, and also, you know, it goes back to, you know, babies sometimes, you know, parents choose not to vaccinate their kids. A vaccine is merely giving information about a certain thing that you want to attack when it's in the body to the immune system. And so in inside of a dendritic cell therapy or a dendritic cell vaccine, you are actually giving information about the particular tumor to the immune system, but you're doing it in such a way that the information wasn't gathered inside the body. And we can talk about some of the reasons why that may not have happened, but you're still, you are vaccinating against it. So it is a therapy, it's a dendritic cell therapy. The one that I work with. I work with Immunocine at immunocine.com, which is what we're talking about, which is a very particular highly evolutionized, patented, studied and now in US clinical trials through the FDA route and nearing closer and closer to a true FDA approval in glioblastoma multiforme not there yet, but they're heading that way. It's not the pharmaceutical. The US venture is, uh, Diakonos Oncology, which is a, you know, US sister company to immunocine.com. Um, and this is called a double loaded dendritic cell, so it sets it absolutely definitively defacto apart from any other dendritic cell therapy globally. Unless somebody's infringing on a patent, obviously, you know, um, or so the technology was discovered at Baylor College of Medicine. What are we in 2026 now? I think around 15 or 16 years ago. I, I am not exactly sure on that timestamp. Uh, and I worked directly with one of the inventors, Dr. Matt Halpert, who, uh, as a young postdoc was in Will Decker's lab and with other doctors who've figured this out. Hmm. They were just, they had been working with dendritic cells for so long, which I started with dendritic cell therapy back in the late nineties. At that time, nobody knew about double loading dendritic cells. And I, we probably should explain what that means, but we didn't know about it, hadn't been thought of or checked yet, and so we were using single loads. We had some success. We had a immunotherapy clinic here in Tempe, Arizona, myself and a guy named Neil Riordan. Neil now in the world of stem cells. Um, but both got our start in cellular immunotherapy and trying to create a cell mediated response. This was 24, what? 30 some odd years ago, right? Or almost 30 years ago. Late nineties. So it's matured a lot. And the ability to be able to activate the dendritic cells to then be put back into the person's body and then activate the T cells and get a downstream immune response is so much more able to be done with the greater sophistication that we now see with these new patented techniques, specifically the double loaded dendritic cells.

Ivelisse Page

And so that's not being done in clinics here in the US right now. So do they have to go to Immunocine and Cancun to get the double loaded?

Dr. Dan Rubin

To get the treatment? Yes.

Ivelisse Page

Okay.

Dr. Dan Rubin

They do. Um, yeah, it's just, well, it's being done in the US in under clinical trial. Clinical

Ivelisse Page

trials.

Single-Loaded vs Double-Loaded Dendritic Cells (Why It Matters)

Dr. Dan Rubin

Got it. Yeah. And there's, there's a couple clinical trials underway for pancreatic ductal carcinoma, glioblastoma, and I believe one is opening on melanoma.

Ivelisse Page

And you mentioned it earlier, and I'm sure people are wondering, so what is the difference between a single loaded and double loaded and how does that affect treatment outcomes?

Dr. Dan Rubin

Yeah.

Ivelisse Page

In a simple way.

Dr. Dan Rubin

Yeah. Well, uh, no, let's make it very simple. So, uh, there's a couple ways to think about what it means to double load. So double loading means take information from the cancer cell and put it in one part of the dendritic cell. And load it into another part. It's very similar to nowadays, I wanna leave home with my phone and my wallet. If I forget, not that they're attached, so I put my wallet in my front pocket on my left side and I put my, my phone in my front pocket on my right side, and now I'm double loaded. Right? I have what I need to do, you know, for the day. It's also similar to what we call two factor authentication. Right, like it's not just enough to put in your password, but now we need an additional codes into our email. So it's like making sure that the info's there, so the dendritic cell has multiple checkpoints on it to make sure that it is going to give the order to the infantry, the foot soldiers to say, go kill this. So it really has to be sure that it has the right info. So. There's two different, um, things I guess that you would load into the dendritic cell. Typically, dendritic cell therapy for the last three decades has been using what we call tumor lysate. That's taking a tumor, taking a piece of the tumor, chopping it up, taking the proteins. And put stuffing that into, you know, feeding it into the dendri dendritic cell, loading it into one area, and then dendritic cell then displays those proteins and then goes and educates, gives that PowerPoint presentation and says, Hey, here's a couple pieces of information. Go find the cells with this information and then go kill it. But. That's not enough. So not only do they want and desire that tumor lysate in those proteins, but they also need to have certain peptide sequences from the DNA specifically of those tumor cells, the mutated DNA. And so that we load into the other part of the dendritic cell. So now they have the lysate, they have the DNA, they give the PowerPoint presentation. It says, go look for these specific, these highly conserved, highly specific sequences. And when you find that in association with these other proteins, attack. That's not awesome. That's self, but it's bad self.

Ivelisse Page

So do dendretic cells work differently depending on the type of cancer a patient has?

Dr. Dan Rubin

No.

Ivelisse Page

Okay. And it's,

Dr. Dan Rubin

that's, and that's,

Ivelisse Page

yes. Okay.

Patient Journey: Intake, Biopsy, Apheresis & Injection Schedule in Cancun

Dr. Dan Rubin

I was gonna say that's the beauty of it. Mm-hmm. Is that dendritic cells, it's agnostic to types of cancer. You just, you have to have a piece of the tumor, um, in order to make the dendritic cell therapy. You really need two things. You need the patient's monocytes, their white, you know, certain types of white blood cells, and you need the patient's tumor tissue, and you can make the dendritic cell therapy. I mean, there's ingredients that go into it to stimulate the cells and, you know, help them populate, et cetera. But that's really the raw materials that are required. So as a naturopathic oncologist, I look at this as an incredibly naturalistic, it's almost a true purest naturopathic treatment because you're It's self versus self.

Ivelisse Page

Yeah. And so what is the process that a patient would go through for this therapy? You know? Yeah.

Dr. Dan Rubin

So, uh, you mean it from like start to finish basically?

Ivelisse Page

Yeah. So they go into your office? Yeah. Like what's the experience like for a patient?

Immunocine Preserve: Tumor Biobanking for Future Personalized Therapy

Dr. Dan Rubin

So, uh, well, and it doesn't have to be my office. So basically a patient is either self-referred or referred to by a, a practitioner to Immunocine, and they would go on immunocine.com and they would click, register now or become a patient. Uh, and they would, they would get contacted by Immunocine and they would begin the intake process to get more information, you know, talk about where they are in their case or in their oncology journey, talking about tissue accessibility, like can we get tissue talking about costs, ability to travel, and then if sort of they, you know, accept and get past that initial intake. Uh, it's not really an intake, it's more of a discussion that they have with Immunocine staff, which is US based. Then they can go to the record submission step where they then, uh, they have a portal with Immunocine. They then upload their medical records, and then they move into the medical review. That's where a, a full team, a legitimate, full team of MDs, uh, based in Cancun, also based in the United States, but it's primarily the medical oncologist, the interventional radiologist, the internist, all on staff at Immunocine will go through and do a medical evaluation. Uh, it's really, really complex. It's, um, I think we could all learn something from that here in the United States with the complexity, the thoroughness, and it's, it's wonderful to see. Then they either are, or are not accepted as a patient. If they're accepted as a patient, they're then going to have to be given a date of when they can start. And so they would, they right now, they still get time in a group setting with Matt Halpert, the CEO of Immunocine. Uh, Dr. Halpert is a PhD immunologist who put this all together. And, uh, he goes through answers, questions. Um, patients really like meeting with the inventor, like the master of this. And so that call is usually with a couple, uh, a couple, uh, an MD, PhD, a DO, different staff members of Immunocine. I'm not part of that crew. And then they say yes or no. Right? And if the patient says yes, they go to Cancun. And typically what would happen is once they get to Cancun, they need to, uh, get a, they meet with the oncologist, they meet with the interventional radiologist, and then they're set up to get a tumor sample taken.'cause we, again, we need a piece of the tumor in order to make the treatment. It doesn't work without it. And so they would get their biopsy, their tumor sampling that gets taken right to the lab that's done in a certified hospital in Cancun. I think it's the most certified hospital in Cancun, um, with the Immunocine physicians. Then they go through, there's a few days where they get white blood cell stimulation to raise their white blood cell count because a couple days later they have the white blood cell collection. And that's an extended blood draw through a, a procedure called pheresis, or apheresis where, um, blood is taken outta the body in a closed system and everything is returned back to the human, the platelets, the red blood cells, the plasma, the serum, except for a grouping of white blood cells called the monocytes. We take millions of those and the monocytes are then used to produce the vaccine, the therapy. And so that's basically the first six, seven days in Cancun. Uh, after that, somebody can go home, but they need to come back and be back there for their first injection, their first administration of what's called IDCT one or Immunocine Dendritic Cell Therapy 1, which is on day 14 of that process. Day one being the first day you know that they're there and then they can stay. But they need to be back on day 28 for number two. And the same is true for day 42, which is injection therapy number three. That's the basis of the protocol. Okay. Wow. Some people, um, have a good enough collection of white blood cells, so they have what are called boosters. So they are able to, if and when, excuse me, if and when deemed appropriate by Immunocine medical staff, they can travel down and get number four and or number five sort of depends where they are in the process. However, you had mentioned in the reading of my bio that myself and Immunocine partnered together to create what's called Immunocine Preserve, which is actually here in Scottsdale, Arizona. It's Biobank lab. Uh, uh, not too far from, I'm sitting in my, my clinical office right now, which is right on a hospital campus, right on the, in the oncology sector of, uh, right in Scottsdale and a couple miles north we have our Biobank lab, so this is for people who are getting surgery now, we're going through a biopsy procedure or have the opportunity to harvest part of their tumor now, but may not later. Let me give you an example of what that looks like. Somebody's diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Typically they would go through like initial three or four cycles of chemotherapy, and then they would be looked at as a surgical candidate. And if they're a surgical candidate, they would, that would be a time when, since they're taking the cancer out as much as they can, that would be a time to harvest the tumor and get it into our biobank, because then they'll usually go back and do three more cleanup cycles of chemotherapy. Then the patient might then be a great candidate, be ready to go for Immunocine. But, after all that chemotherapy, if there's no viable tumor that's accessible you, you can't undergo Immunocine therapy. So that's why Immunocine Preserve was set up

Ivelisse Page

for

Dr. Dan Rubin

that. I, so when it's time to do it, or even if you think you might want to do Immunocine and you have the opportunity to harvest tumor in your hometown or somewhere else, you know, nearby to your house, we send a kit out, um, with full instructions and they simply have their surgeons put tumor specimens inside of that, inside of the vials that we provide. And then that gets sent back to the lab. And as long as the pathology shows that it is cancerous, and as long as, um, we can accept this tumor sample into our biobank, we will process the tissue and eventually get it down to the Cancun Clinic if they ever go for Immunocine treatment.

Results, Expectations & Immune Testing—What Clinicians Are Learning

Ivelisse Page

I love that. I love that. Well, what kind of results or benefits have you seen with the dendritic cell therapies in your own patients?

Dr. Dan Rubin

We have some, we have some really nice cases, um, I have to say. And so I will say that I'm not here to just report all the successes. There are some times when the dendritic cell therapy doesn't work as well as I'd say we'd want it to. Right? Mm-hmm. Um, and with something for the listener here to understand is that clinically speaking, outside of any clinical trial, double loaded dendritic cells, figuring out how to make it, how to administer, what the perfect dose, it's still young. It's only about three years in, in terms of looking at candidacy because some people who were initially declined candidacy at Immunocine ended up having some of the best responses clearing them up and having no evidence of disease when they entered Immunocine and were declined because the doctors thought maybe the disease was too bulky and they didn't have enough time to live for the immune system to get input. And so, um, I, I think the, I'm thinking here about my different patients that have gone down there, um. We've seen, we've overall, with my particular patient load, we've seen the best results in people with metastatic breast cancer.

Ivelisse Page

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Dan Rubin

Um, and I think when you look at Immunocine results overall, when you start looking at the greatest cohort of patients, and we're talking about people who already have advanced disease and who may have exhausted various prior conventional therapies, um, you don't know the condition of their immune system when they're entering. And generally we assume that, okay, hey, it's not good because look at the situation they're in. But when you look at the biggest cohort of patients, you're looking at people with colorectal cancer and adults with, you know, breast cancer. And then we have N of ones or N of two or maybe N of three for different, I think there's about 26 different types of cancers in people that, uh, Immunocine has treated. And then you gotta decide what is a result. Is it looking against standardized Kaplan Meier curves about disease-free survival or maybe overall survival? Because if that's our, if that's our number one metric, Immunocine is kicking butt. This is a real thing. If it's people having the expectation that, okay, you know, within six to seven months my cancer's just gonna go away, that's a hard discussion to have and data doesn't support that because some people might require 12 months for their immune system really to kick in, but in the meantime, having no progression of disease or having disease go away, having no additional tumors, improvement, like significant improvement in quality of life. These are things that you see when the cancer starts becoming controlled in the body. And I'm talking about the biophysiology that we see in the body when the immune system starts taking better control, able to calm inflammatory markers, able to calm the output of cancer. Improvement in sleeping and eating, sort of like the biological metrics that takes to be alive, more enjoyment. That leads people to start engaging in life more, which then leads to these better outcomes. So, doing a pure nonchemical, true biophysiological treatment like this that's non-toxic. There's a lot that we're still learning at Immunocine. A lot that I'm learning is Dan Rubin, the clinician who's also managing patients after they come back from Immunocine, who are my particular patients, and also learning about who's a candidate. What the biology should look like. And look, we're doing some of the most sophisticated immune system testing out there mm-hmm in the patient world, you know, outside of the clinical trial world. And it's fascinating what, uh, what we see and what I, maybe the thing that I'm most excited for, besides the results that some of my patients are having is the future.

Ivelisse Page

Hmm.

Dr. Dan Rubin

This is like an exciting time because not only do we have this phenomenally, integral and, and following natural biology treatment. But we have the ability to test and assess and get more input and data points so we can improve the experience for people. You know, how do you, you know, maybe we do only need three treatments. Maybe it's better to have five treatments. So still rolling in.

Ivelisse Page

Yeah. You said the immune system has a big, large play onto how many times the therapy has to be applied. And do you find that those who, uh, have had heavy chemotherapy treatments, that it does take them a lot longer than someone who might be naive in, in the sense of not having traditional treatments come to you?

Dr. Dan Rubin

So it's not a, it's not a binary yes or no on that because like I said, some of those head scratch, some of'em are head scratchers. You're like, all right. You know, so the chemo wasn't killing, I mean, we saw a patient here the other day who, um, is, was accepted to Immunocine, but we had to put the acceptance on hold because there was some tumor growth, and we thought that, hey, let's maybe give make this Immunocine have a better chance upfront by debulking the tumor, conventionally speaking. So when on a different regimen of chemotherapy and looking at this one particular t-cell immune parameter, a function, not a quantification. So it was a qualification. It was almost 200 points above where I needed to see, and this is a person who was heavily pretreated with chemotherapy. Now, natural killer cell function was in the toilet, but T-cell function was just, was astounding. It was phenomenal. It was like it was a head scratcher. So I don't know. We don't know yet. And so that's part of the testing and gathering the, and here's the thing. This is for, for literally for people listening out there, because of the scientific rigor of Immunocine It's not, it's not just to, oh, comfort. You know, there's not IVs and yoga and meals. It's not that typical clinic. It's an immunotherapy clinic. There are some, there are some companion treatments that Immunocine can use to help exert a better immune response. But, data is being gathered, the data points to move this forward, push forward this, so those that are coming after those who have come before can have maybe an improved experience, always learning. That's one of the things I respect most about what Dr. Halper has set up in Immunocine is exposure of the data, to people who wanna look at it, um, especially physicians, but open to patients as well, and just collection of the data and, you know, improvement. It's one of the things that attracted me to it.

Autumn Burns

Hi, this is Autumn Burns, Director of Patient Impact for Believe Big, and I would like to invite you to A Taste of Hope, Believe Big's Maryland fundraising dinner on Thursday, April 23rd from 5:30 to 9:00 PM This is more than a dinner. It's an unforgettable experience. Enjoy an elevated immersive dining experience crafted by Baltimore's Best, Chef, Zach Trabbold of Evolved Catering and his acclaimed culinary team. Every course will be thoughtfully prepared with exceptional ingredients and incredible flavor you'll be talking about long after the evening ends. But the real heart of the night, hope. You'll hear powerful stories of lives impacted right here in our community. Discover how integrated medicine is changing cancer care, and have the opportunity to participate in a paddle raise that directly supports families navigating cancer. Individual tickets are$150. Tables of eight start at$1,000 and special Tables of Honor options are available to celebrate a loved one. Seats are limited. Cocktail attire requested. So gather your friends, your family, and join us in Upperco for a night where extraordinary food, meaningful connection and generosity come together to create hope. Visit believebig.org to reserve your seat today.

Ivelisse Page

Yeah, and, and to your point, you know, it really goes back, we're always so focused on the physical side of healing, but every individual is different. You know, they gave me a less than 8% chance of surviving, and that was back in goodness, 2008. And so there's so many other factors that contribute to someone's healing. And I wanna also preface that with those who are listening, that it's your emotional state, it's your spiritual state, it's all these therapies and the loads that are on your body that you know, physicians like yourself, you know, are really helping to make a holistic care to this individual and not just so focused on this physical side, uh, of treatment. Um, everyone wants that magic bullet and there isn't a magic bullet. It's all these things that I believe, you know, the Lord brings into our path that really helps our bodies to heal in such a beautiful way. And so I really appreciate Yeah. You know, what, what you're doing and uh, you know, I know a lot of people are probably thinking, and in our last few minutes here, how much does a therapy like this cost?'cause I'm sure insurance doesn't cover it. Yeah.

Dr. Dan Rubin

Uh, the, I believe, so last question. First. I believe there is the potential for some international insurance coverage in partner and whole. I'm not really on that side, but I've heard some mutterings about that. In general, all in it's 120,000 US dollars for the treatment. That's all in. That's also the other thing is you're not gonna find additional charges to get through that first, you know, one Immunocine treatment one, two, and three. That's if an additional blood test needs to be done, if an additional test needs to be done, an additional doctor's appointment while in Cancun, obviously not, you know, not counting what's going on in the United States, but that's what Immunocine does. Okay. So it's just very fair. It's very ethical. It's very above water. It's people who are interested and may apply and start getting taken through the products, I think will enjoy it. It's kind of a relief from some of the typicals we see otherwise out there.

Ivelisse Page

Okay. And so in our last question here, you know, where do you see the future of dendritic cell therapy going, especially in the context of personalized and integrative cancer care?

Dr. Dan Rubin

We've already talked about it. This is the future. The future is in what I talked about in terms of the testing and learning more. We have, we need the participation of our patients. And so the more we learn about, you know, maybe somebody did a cold plunge a lot and they had bladder cancer, and I was like, okay, well maybe that had a role to play. Like let's look at the biology that, you know, and then the other person didn't looking at genomics, but amalgamating data to be able to assess and help those, like I said, who are coming after compared to those who are coming before. That's definitely the future. Right now I don't see anything technologically beyond the double loading. It's how the immune system works. It's biology. We now know, we never knew before.

Ivelisse Page

I love it. I love it. Is there anything that you would like to add that I didn't get a chance to ask you that you feel would be important to, for our listeners?

Dr. Dan Rubin

That's a big giant question and I'm a longtime practicing naturopathic oncologist. I don't think we have time.

Ivelisse Page

Okay. That's great. Um, well, Dr. Rubin, I just so appreciate I know how busy you are and I just so appreciate you taking the time to share with us about this really important work that you're doing. And really sharing with the world. Uh, thank you for all the ways that you help our patients over the so many years that you've been a part of Believe Big's resources and, you know, we're so grateful for you and, and your office and all that you do for the patients we serve. So thank you.

Dr. Dan Rubin

You're welcome. And thank you for what you do and having me as a guest to be able to talk about this.

Ivelisse Page

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